Is Reduced Weight Worth An Extra $1500+ for 8x10?

[Robert M]

Hello everyone,

I'm making the leap to large format photography (from medium format) and have done a fair amount of research , including poring over this forum, and asking colleagues at my local photography school their opinion. There are a fair number of large format converts at the school, but the vast majority (98% is conservative) have gone to 4x5.

Basically, the reason I'm jumping straight to 8x10 is because of my interest in alternative processes and working with large negatives, and one of my former teachers is the resident expert in that area and encouraging me to do 8x10. However, he says I should spend the money on a Canham or Phillips, because he claims that if I go with a more reasonably priced and heavier Tachihara or Wista or other brand, I'll never use it after the initial honeymoon. He did, however, approve of buying an old Deardorff if it was in good condition. My other B&W professor, on the other hand, is much less of a brand snob and thinks the more expensive cameras are overkill (though he shoots 4x5 primarily).

I envision using the camera heavily for environmental portraits, a little studio work, and some landscape work (depending on how onerous the weight really is). Weight is certainly crucial along with price, but it's also important for me to have a camera that doesn't require a lot of extra tuning and tweaking related to maintenance...I understand that large format is a different animal, and I'm ready to immerse myself in the Zen of the process, but I want to spend my time getting better pictures, not hunting around for parts and screws and varnish and glue in order to keep the camera in one piece. So rehab jobs to save a penny don't work for me...I'm just not that handy.

I think I've found a refinished Deardorff with new bellows in decent condition for a little under $2000. The Canham, by contrast, is priced at $3500, which takes the purchase into the category of real financial pain. I can't seem to find out much about Phillips other than it looks like it will take quite a while to get the camera from the time the order is placed, and they don't seem to come up used at all.

Will I regret purchasing the Deardorff? Is a $3000+ camera really worth the premium? Though I did say that I don't want a fixer upper, I'm not into carrying around a camera for status or museum display purposes either...I do have these tendencies at times when it comes to other product categories, but I don't need a BMW caliber camera, unless the friendly folks here feel that's the way to go when it comes to getting a useable camera in this category..

Sorry for the longwinded post, but I'd appreciate any quick feedback on the price-feature tradeoffs with the brands I've mentioned. Thanks in advance to anyone who can reply.

[David A. Goldfarb]

First off, I also went straight to 8x10" when I purchased my first LF camera. Now I shoot 4x5" as well, but I can understand the appeal of the larger camera, and if that's your intuition, then go with it.

These are all good cameras, and it really depends on the specific features you're after. How important is weight to you? Getting a lighter 8x10" isn't the only option--you might decide that when weight is a prime concern, you'll shoot 4x5", for instance. Deardorffs are great cameras, and they hold their value, so if that's the camera it makes sense for you to buy now, you can likely sell it for the price you bought it for. A new camera will depreciate immediately, so if you decide to sell it, you will most likely lose money.

[John Kasaian]

Robert,

IMHO, for 8x10, you can't go wrong with a 'dorff! If you want to go extreme with this wieght thing, Peter Gowland builds the lightest 8x10 I know of. Keep in mind though, the camera usually isn't going to be the "back-breaker"---all those 8x10 film holders and the heavy duty tripod are!---------Good Luck!

[CP Goerz]

BMW around here means 'Broken Most Weekends'.

CP Goerz in LA

[Jim Galli]

NO.

I spent yesterday from dawn to dusk in Death Valley scrambling up and down rocks and in and out of canyons with primarily the Deardorff 8X10. I couldn't afford anything lighter and the $800 'dorff is wonderful to use. I've seen some spiffy one ownerish later 'dorffs going on Ebay lately for $1300. I prefer an un-restored camera to one that's been through someone's restoration mill. My feeling is that the Deardorff is todays best bargain. And I have had 3 other 8X10's to compare it to. I have a "green monster" (Calumet C1 magnesium) that I keep because it's strong enough to hold up 6+ pound cooke portrait lenses but I doubt if it will ever go into the field like the Deardorff. I began with a Cambo 8X10 and it is simply to heavy for anything but studio use. If you fall in love with the field work and decide you can't live without a Phillips or Canham you can sell a used Deardorff for what you got it for.

[tim atherton]

Your one prof certainly has a point. I had a Deardorff, which got me hooked on 8x10, but quite frankly it was a slog to drag it out and lug it about (fine if you are a "car boot" phtographe..r). Now, however, with a Phillips Compact II, it really is that much more easy and convenient - basically it just isn't so goddam heavy! Unless it's very windy, I use a much lighter tripod (gitzo 1325) and you can also get by with a ligther tripod head, like the acratech. Apart from the 8x10 holders (which are a bugger) it makes the whole setup lighter. For me, that ,eans I'm a lot happier carrying it over my shoulder around towns and cities, or over a bit of tundra and I probably just use it more. I'ts going up to the diamond mines on the Barren Lands next week for a shoot - I don't think I would have done that with the Dorff.

The Phillips (waiting list and lightest of the bunch apart from the Phillips Explorer and the Gowland), Canham (wood or metal) all seem to have satisfied users. Another option is the Gandolfi Variant 8x10 - only a touch heavier than the Phillips and quite versatile (at least one user on here). The Gowland is an ultralight and cheaper option, but perhaps not quite as convenient or versatile? - but users on here too.

Again, horses for courses, but if I was starting again with an older camera, I'd find a semi-decent Kodak Master 8x10. About the same weight as the Dorff I think, but tough as old boots - and Michael Smith and Jock Struges seem to do okay with them.... "-)

[wfwhitaker]

Keep in mind that lenses can make up a significant portion of the weight of your kit. You can save quite a bit of weight by paring down the number of lenses you carry. Depending upon your preferences you can also find some fairly lightweight lenses on the market. The difference could overshadow the difference in camera weight.

While I fully believe in supporting the folks who support our madness, I cast my vote for finding a clean Deardorff or Master View and saving what money you can for lenses and film. As Jim pointed out, you can always get your money back out of it should you decide that a modern camera is what you want.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Have you considered a Wehman? It's lightweight (8.7 lbs.), reasonably priced, very rugged and folds up nice for transport? Just another option to consider (given your budget and desire for a reasonably light camera).

Kerry

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

YOu might also want to consider the Gandolfi, it is light weight (little over 6 #) and I think Bromwell is selling them for $2700. For $700 more you get a new camera, I have one and I am pleased with it, like all cameras it has it good and bad points, but overall it has given me very good service and I am a bit rough with my equipment, but then I have hiked pretty good distances with this camera.

The Deardoff is definitly a good camera, an 8 pounds is no big deal, the weight is mostly in the lenses and holders, so IMO spending an extra $1500 to save 2 pounds is not worth it, specially if this would mean a financial sacrifice. If it was me, just beguinning and money was an issue I would go with Kerry's recommendation, the Wheman seems to be a great camera for a very reasonable price.

[Ralph Barker]

I went the other direction, opting for the less expensive, but new, Tachihara double-extension model (about 9#). I just couldn't see spending $2K for the cult status of a 'Dorff. Weight is certainly an issue, but for me, it was secondary to the overall investment. I've taken the Tachi on several trips, and it is usually accompanied by a Toyo 45AX and a Leica M6 TTL for casual shots. While I don't usually take both LF cameras to a location at the same time, it has been a workable solution to shooting both formats. I only do contact prints with the 8x10, but enlarge the 4x5 work. There is, however, a growing itch to get an 8x10 enlarger.