Happy Birthday to you and condolences to Mr. Snapper!
Sometimes I think the hobby here is seeing who can shoot with the lightest outfit? There was some guy on here a few years ago who put together an ultralight 8x10 kit and took off into the backcountry with only one holder to save weight.
Andrew,Originally Posted by cosmicexplosion
Hope you enjoy your birthday, and do not leave your guests too often to check for messages here...
In a gathering of photographers in the Toronto area, I had a chance to handle a Ritter 8x10 at the same time I had my Deardorff 8x10 with me. Functionally there is likely little to chose, weight however is something else again.
While, all else being equal, heavier would be more rigid, but rigidity is as much affected by design and materials too. For the design aspect I look at the front of my ULF Korona Panoramic with a metal guides on both sides sliding in a wooden slots and its rigidity is extremely poor as compared to my Deardorff with the two diagonal braces supporting the front standard.
As Drew mentioned above, materials can make a big difference. In that regards, the Ritter is a major breakthrough in thinking outside of the box. When comparing the Ritter against my Dorff, the Dorff has a large heavy wood base for the tripod mount and to support the focusing racks. The Ritter uses a couple of carbon fibre tubes with enormous rigidity but little mass. The Ritter uses large alloy supports (CNC machined?), where the Dorff uses lighter gauge sheet metal braces. From a transport and use point of view I would say the Ritter would be a much better camera than the Dorff, although maybe someone who has used both could provide more detailed information.
The one area the Dorff would have it over the Ritter (sorry Richard), is if mine were in better condition, it would be nicer looking. That of course should not impact what is exposed o the back ...
I am a past customer of Richard, but for repairs, so not totally unbiased. I can confirm that he does very good work and pleased with how easy it was in dealing with him, even across an international border.
Hope that helps,
Len
the question can be turned many ways,
cameras are all different, by this fact, all the same
Heavy cameras for heavy lenses, I would not mount on the Deardorff 8x10" what can be mount on the Plaubel Peco Provia. Obviously.
In the other hand, the Plaubel would not be often on the field....
Experience will say by itself. Short cuts are not always eloquent.
Some of us will learn by trying.
Have a nice day, today !!!
I hope he didn't leave both darkslides at home to save more weight!
well i have a slight hangover and feel guilty about being an accomplice to the murder of all those snappers.
but you cant beat a fish cooked on a fire wrapped in foil,
so i wake up and clean up and think how great it would be to go to the coast and make some photographs.
but the idea of dragging my sinar p out into the real world, on foot is not inspiring, which in a way, answers my question.
lighter gets you out there.
especially when you are tired or hungover. general wear and tear of life/fatigue=suffering. (Buddha's first law: life is suffering)
which lets face it is often.
and when the body is weary the brain goes to dormant mode to save battery power.
hence the popularity of t.v after a big day.
or am i just wallowing?
i am on a massive island on the middle of no where called australia, eighteen million people, and not one ritter to play with!
i know only one dude from point light gallery and he uses an ebony 8x10.
there are no New York camera exchange, or Bh or whatever, there was, a few but long gone.
ok, so i aam boring my self to death here, so i will go and lie down and think about going out with my friend mr P
THanks for your insights and arguments
sorry to put you on the spot mr Ritter
A
through a glass darkly...
23.12% better.
But to try to be helpful instead of a wise ass, I've always thought the importance of weight as factor in stability in the wind was overrated. Not that it's unimportant, just sometimes given more importance than it deserves. If you're in a strong wind the dark cloth or tube or whatever you use will be blowing all over the place, sometimes making it difficult or even impossible to see the ground glass well enough/long enough to focus and compose. And the bellows will also be moving back and forth as it's being buffeted by the wind.
I've been in winds - not gales, just strong winds - where it was impossible to use any LF camera because of the wind - not that the camera was unstable per se but because of the foregoing problems - things having nothing to do with the weight of the camera as such were just moving around too much. I'm sure most others here have been in the same situation at one time or another. While an umbrella can help, it isn't a total solution depending on the strength of the wind, how the umbrella is held, etc.
A very heavy camera may of course help some/all/little of the time. But every single time you go out to photograph you're going to be lugging it around even though its extra weight will be unnecessary some/all/little of the time. I'd rather go with something that will make photography more pleasurable and physically easier every time I photograph (less weight) than something that will only be needed occasionally if ever (the extra weight of a heavy camera) - depending of course on how often you photograph in winds and how strong they tend to be.
There is of course a mid-ground between carrying one of the heaviest cameras and one of the lightest. I liked the Deardorffs I owned as a reasonable compromise.
Your choice, good luck.
Brian Ellis
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be
a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
Your solution is to own two cameras, a Ritter and a Sinar....
OK, my first 8x10 camera was a Wisner (very early version) that didn't have enough bellows draw for a 24" lens. My second 8x10 camera was a Zone VI. My third 8x10 camera is a Ritter. I still have the Zone VI. When I go on a photo trip, I take both along. The Ritter sits on the tripod, the Zone VI sits in the car (in case I somehow break the Ritter). When it is windy, I find that placing my hand on the carbon fiber rails of the Ritter significantly reduces/eliminates any vibrations. My Ritter is serial #1 (Richard doesn't use serial #'s, but I believe I have the first one manufactured post prototype). I've used it on the coast of Maine, in the snow of New England and dozens of other locations. My most used lens is a 450. I believe a 600 would cause most any field camera to exhibit vibrations on a windy day.
I owned a Ritter 7x17 before the 8x10, so I knew what to expect. I've also asked Richard to make me an 8x10 with shorter rails/bellows so I can use the wider angle lenses I own with the 5x7 reducing back Richard made for me.
I guess you could count me as 1 happy Ritter customer. And no, I don't receive any compensation from Richard. Fact is, I pay retail for all my gear.
I know it is a long distance call with considerable time zone differences, but the most valuable photographic conversation you are likely to have is with Richard. Give him a shout and explain to him what/how you photograph and he will provide with the wisdom he has gathered from working with numerous cameras over the years. Every time I talk with Richard, I learn something.
Why don't you just get a cart for the Sinar P and go out and make some pictures? It's a great camera and if you are just looking for an excuse not to shoot then you need to kick yourself in the butt to get going - 8x10 isn't for the faint of heart and you can always complain that it is too expensive, heavy, or difficult. So you need to do some reflection and see if popping for a lighter camera will really get you out shooting more... or if you really rather want to just get a Mamiya 7 or a DSLR and shine on like most folks.
Why spend thousands on a new camera if you're just going to shoot it 100 feet from the car? Etc.
Sherpas
I just hiked my Zone VI 8x10 (not the lightweight one) from 4000' to a little over 5000' in about 2 miles for a view of Yosemite Falls. One of my boys carried the six 8x10 holders and another carried the Ries A100 pod (w/ A250 head). I carried everything back down hill (one boy went to the top of the Falls and the other headed back down the trail early).
Of course the food bill is a bit high...
How you pack and move a system is very important. I used to go on a couple mile hikes with a Sinar P. I made a case that I could strap to a back pack frame. It was heavy, but it was no problem going for a couple of miles. Now I have Jerold's old brick Toyo field. It fits very well in a Think Tank back pack. I have no problems going on a multi-mile hike even though the back pack support system is no where near as good as on a real backpack. With a big camera, using a wheeled cart can be very good for many situations.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
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