but why so expensive - LF cameras.

[rdenney]

A lot of the "cheap stuff" is inexpensive because it is being sold by people who no longer has a need for it. Many of these folks seem to have "gotten their monies worth" and don't need to turn a significant profit.

I don't think it's only that they don't need to get more, I think it's that they CAN'T get more. Sinar F2's languish on the for-sale forum at $600, for example. Most everyone who wants one has one, so the price has to go low enough to attract an unmotivated buyer to give it a try. The seller has a choice: lower the price or find no market. The price will settle to the point where it meets buyer motivation (i.e., willingness to pay).

This would be as true for the guy who bought the F2 new last year and is taking a $2500 bath on it as it is for the guy who bought it in 1992 and has fully depreciated it. Remaining depreciated value is a cost consideration for the seller, and it may drive the price asked. But the price paid will be determined by the market.

Rick "well steeped in the difference between price and cost" Denney

[BrianShaw]

"well steeped in the difference between price and cost"

Yes, of course. Thanks for the clarification.

[Jim Jones]

Sometimes there is detail that most LF photographers overlook in quality cameras. For example, in my early Inba Ikeda field camera, the slots in many (but not all) screws are aligned. This was common in very expensive firearms, but not in cameras. Some plated brass hardware is inletted into the wood instead of merely being attached to the surface. Such details are signs of hand craftsmanship, not assembly line production. Some people can afford the luxury of owning craftsmanship that goes far beyond good functioning. With luck and patience, the rest of us have a chance to buy such cameras at a fraction of their production cost.

[E. von Hoegh]

Thanks all, thinking of 4x5, -yes I am aware you can find cheap stuff on ebay and such, just wondering why new is so expensive.

Very high quality, very limited production. The materials are the cheapest part, labor in manufacturing and cost of design and setup are the major costs. Look at any limited production high qualty item that requires meticulous hand work, it's the same.

Buy used, there are incredible bargains out there.

[E. von Hoegh]

Sometimes there is detail that most LF photographers overlook in quality cameras. For example, in my early Inba Ikeda field camera, the slots in many (but not all) screws are aligned. This was common in very expensive firearms, but not in cameras. Some plated brass hardware is inletted into the wood instead of merely being attached to the surface. Such details are signs of hand craftsmanship, not assembly line production. Some people can afford the luxury of owning craftsmanship that goes far beyond good functioning. With luck and patience, the rest of us have a chance to buy such cameras at a fraction of their production cost.

Gandolfi and a few others line up the screw slots. I saw it done on a Russian tailboard camera. Lining up the slots in woodscrews is child's play compared to lining up the slots in machine screws on a fine firearm.

[John Kasaian]

Thanks all, thinking of 4x5, -yes I am aware you can find cheap stuff on ebay and such, just wondering why new is so expensive.

Nothing is cheaper than a pinhole camera, and they are large format. If it weren't for digital driving down the prices of used gear I probably wouldn't have started shooting large format unless I came across some financial windfall. New LF cameras are expensive, but can you imagine the cost of building one? Just the fine cabinetry of a woody like the Tachihara or the start up costs in dies for something high tech like a Walker are prohibitive when you think of the potential market, which is miniscule by comparison, versus the cost of production Add to that the metal work, some of which is custom and not just stock nuts and bolts.

There are those who can afford a new camera (bless 'em)and there are those of us who have families to raise and buy used, but used LF cameras are rugged by comparison and timeless, so it's not an issue for me. I am amazed and gratified that people still build and buy new LF cameras. They should as it puts craftsman and designers to work and is good for the art. But it has never occurred to me that because I can't afford to order a new Deardorff or Linhof that I am somehow being deprived, or that I should complain about it.
It is not unlike driving a used truck as opposed to a new. As long as it's a good used truck there is no practical difference, it there? Yet a new truck will set you back tens of thousands of dollars, while my surplus forestry dept. truck cost barely more than a set of tires. They all will take you to the same places.

A sheet of film dosen't know, nor could it tell you if it was exposed in a brand new camera or an 80 year old camera, any more than it could tell you if the camera was a $700 Shen Hao or $5000 Linhof or $100 Calumet 400

[rdenney]

It is not unlike driving a used truck as opposed to a new. As long as it's a good used truck there is no practical difference, it there? Yet a new truck will set you back tens of thousands of dollars, while my surplus forestry dept. truck cost barely more than a set of tires. They all will take you to the same places.

This is a good analogy. The pros who are selling off those high-end Swiss and German cameras used them routinely. They might even be worn out by their standards. But most of us will apply a duty cycle that could only be called "gentle retirement" for those cameras.

I don't mind buying the old used truck if I'm only going to drive it a few thousand miles a year for recreational purposes. But my daily driver which I have to depend on to get me to work every day--that gets a bigger investment. I have a couple of old Toyota trucks (pushing 400,000 miles between them) that are fine for occasional use but would quickly come unglued if I drove them every day.

Rick "whose cameras mostly get to lay on the couch and watch TV" Denney

[Ivan J. Eberle]

OProfessionally targeted cameras that were sold to studio and commercial photographers at premium prices in large numbers until about 15 years ago as state of the art analog tools-- this is where the greatest bargains are found. It's because the amateur used market can hardly absorb all this gear that prices have become so low. Heck, less than a decade has passed since I had an all analog workflow myself.

[Armin Seeholzer]

It has been never so cheap to go into LF like now!
If you take a chinese camera, its much cheaper even new then 10-12 years ago!
Its only expensive if you would like to buy a new Ebony or Linhof, Sinar, Canham etc.

In the past even the used one had been almost as much as a new chinese one!

Cheers Armin

[eddie]

Thanks all, thinking of 4x5, -yes I am aware you can find cheap stuff on ebay and such, just wondering why new is so expensive.

New LF has always been expensive.

Stop looking at new stuff and go buy some used cameras.