People getting paid to post disinformation

[Ken Lee]

Right on the mark. Years ago APUG became useless and irrelevant. This forum is approaching the same per "Once's" comments and I have only been here one year - may not stick around much longer. Thetre is good and relevant inforamtion here, but it is the exception.

Could you explain further ? Could you cite some examples of relevant and useless content ?

I don't mean that as a challenge: I'm asking sincerely.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

"Leigh, get it straight. Since about the time when Domenico Foschi left the forum (about 3 years ago? to give a time line) professionals were leaving this forum one after another due to heavy handed, unprofessional and in the long term very unwise moderating decisions."

1) people were leaving since Jorge and other took flame-wars to new heights. Rude was the norm and one-up-manship took over until the moderators put their foot down. The flame-wars and pissing matches had nothing to do with photography.

2) Internet burn-out: there are only so many times you will type the same info just to be argued with to no point.

"The result of this moderating politics is what the forum became and is now - a chat room for amateurish nonsense where good info is buried under tons of complete cr@p and where people with professional knowledge don't bother any more to wade through to give their point."

News Flash: large format film photography is a HOBBY, professionals went to high-end DSLRs and medium format digital some time ago.

[Kirk Gittings]

Right on the mark. Years ago APUG became useless and irrelevant. This forum is approaching the same per "Once's" comments and I have only been here one year - may not stick around much longer. Thetre is good and relevant inforamtion here, but it is the exception.

You may be right but I think not. There has never been a allot of "professionals" here per capita and many who did frequent here in the past were only here to promote themselves and really contributed little. Many of those have moved on to their own venues which serves their personal aims beter. Some of those who left in the past left partly because of the lack of moderation or the fact that they thought they deserved some special treatment. There were many diverse reasons. Some were just banned because they thought they were above following the rules. Some were frankly aholes. One mentioned above left because he refused to post LF photographs in the LF forums and was continually called on it. He thought it was a free speech issue. The reasons are varied. You frankly weren't around then-actually you haven't been here but 7 months.

Frankly many of the "amateurs" here are more knowledgeable than many top professionals I know.

Unfortunately I wish more professionals with deep rich experience spent more time here "giving back" to the profession, but that doesn't seem important to most "professionals". IMO it is a duty of successful pros. A good example of one who does is Merg Ross.

In any event the forum continues to enjoy slow steady growth and yes most of those appear to be newbies. But that frankly is who can benefit most here and we should accomodate them and consider them a gift rather than a distraction.

As we are a non-commercial site we have no particular need to grow as commercial sites do. So our growth is solely a reflection of interest in the discussions. Despite all the shortcomings the forum is a home to a diverse and talented group of photographic misfits.

[BrianShaw]

I don't think it is right to talk about another forum, but since that seems okay here... I'd like to add that I quite like and appreciate the people of both APUG and Large Format Photography Forum. All on-line forums go through changes over the years and the good ones survive the changes of membership... as these two forums have.

[Frank Petronio]

Leigh, get it straight. Since about the time when Domenico Foschi left the forum (about 3 years ago? to give a time line) professionals were leaving this forum one after another due to heavy handed, unprofessional and in the long term very unwise moderating decisions. The result of this moderating politics is what the forum became and is now - a chat room for amateurish nonsense where good info is buried under tons of complete cr@p and where people with professional knowledge don't bother any more to wade through to give their point.

Ah I have no idea who "Once" is, other than being a rude and unprofessional loud-mouth who hasn't contributed very much positive here.

The "amateurs", as clumsy and awkward as newbies might sometimes be, are who will continue to buy the film and materials that keep the manufacturers in business. If we want to continue to shoot with quality, off-the-shelf materials then we should be encouraging and helpful.

Mostly. I'm no saint. I kid around. I don't suffer poseurs and fools. And that's why "Once" is now on my ignore list.

[Greg Blank]

I think there is lots of valid commentary here, some we may not agree with. One upmanship is part of the photo artistic landscape. Best way to ignore folks is to do just that, no software required...just do it. Take breath, drink an ale, post when you are sober, make some friends, most importantly make some imagery and have some fun! Maybe give some thanks

http://www.gbphotoworks.com/Blessing...011/index.html

[Sal Santamaura]

...professionals were leaving this forum one after another due to heavy handed, unprofessional and in the long term very unwise moderating decisions...people with professional knowledge don't bother any more to wade through to give their point.

Right on the mark...I have only been here one year - may not stick around much longer...

You may be right but I think not. There has never been a allot of "professionals" here per capita and many who did frequent here in the past were only here to promote themselves and really contributed little. Many of those have moved on to their own venues which serves their personal aims beter. Some of those who left in the past left partly because of the lack of moderation or the fact that they thought they deserved some special treatment. There were many diverse reasons. Some were just banned because they thought they were above following the rules. Some were frankly aholes. One mentioned above left because he refused to post LF photographs in the LF forums and was continually called on it. He thought it was a free speech issue. The reasons are varied. You frankly weren't around then-actually you haven't been here but 7 months.

Frankly many of the "amateurs" here are more knowledgeable than many top professionals I know.

Unfortunately I wish more professionals with deep rich experience spent more time here "giving back" to the profession, but that doesn't seem important to most "professionals". IMO it is a duty of successful pros. A good example of one who does is Merg Ross.

In any event the forum continues to enjoy slow steady growth and yes most of those appear to be newbies. But that frankly is who can benefit most here and we should accomodate them and consider them a gift rather than a distraction.

As we are a non-commercial site we have no particular need to grow as commercial sites do. So our growth is solely a reflection of interest in the discussions. Despite all the shortcomings the forum is a home to a diverse and talented group of photographic misfits.

I usually don't quote entire posts, especially long ones, preferring instead to excerpt specific points that need responding to. However, Kirk's commentary richly deserves repeating in full. It is difficult to imagine a more accurate, thorough refutation of the dreck above it. I've visited this forum daily for a dozen years, witnessing first-hand all the things Kirk describes, and couldn't have said it better. Thank you very much Kirk.

"Once" and Bob (yes, I know who you are Mr. Herbst), please leave. Don't let the virtual door hit you on the way out. You'll not be missed.

[tgtaylor]

kiss, kiss, kiss.

[Brian K]

News Flash: large format film photography is a HOBBY, professionals went to high-end DSLRs and medium format digital some time ago.

I'm a professional who earns his living with LF. I know many professionals who still do. I know far more amateurs using DSLRs.

[Tony Evans]

I'm not a professional, not even a good amateur, but I'm grateful to this Forum and it's members. Some people have their head so far up their own arse they can't see.