Durst Grane 205 Negative Carrier for L184 – Locating Pads for Negative Registration?

[Len Middleton]

On the Grane 205 negative carrier for my Durst L184 there are four locating pads with removable pins or bosses. The pins are about 10mm in diameter and paired together on two adjacent sides of the negative carrier, and spaced about 12cm centre to centre.

I originally thought they might be locating pins for the glass, but one only needs three locating pins to locate a right angle object, and besides the pins put undue stress on the glass edge, although three locating pins works for metal.

I am guessing and wondering if they are there to register the negatives (e.g. Conduit registration punch system), and if so if anyone could identify if it is a standard punch configuration and locating system, and who’s system might it be (e.g. Conduit, Durst, Inglis, Kodak, etc.). Or are all the systems generally compatible?

More of a curiosity than a need…

Thanks,

Len

[ic-racer]

I can't say about the older Grane carrier, but the later Laraneg carrier was equipped to be compatible with the Durst MIVALO 'micro precision register system.'

[resummerfield]

.....The pins are about 10mm in diameter and paired together on two adjacent sides of the negative carrier, and spaced about 12cm centre to centre......

The Kodak pins I've worked with are rectangular and 1/4-inch on the long side, and the Durst pins are 1.5mm. I believe the Condit and Inglis pins are similar to the Durst.

I remember seeing some raised bosses on the Nega205 once (or maybe it was the Grane 205?), but there were 2 on each side for a total of 8, and they were more rectangular... I always thought they were for positioning a reduction frame or adapter, like the Mavet 138 (but I've never used that).

If you could post a picture, it would help.

[Drew Wiley]

They aren't film registration pins, which would be on one side only and much smaller. For some kind of accessory insert. I have diagrams somewhere, but can't
remember exactly where I've got them stashed at the moment.

[Len Middleton]

The Kodak pins I've worked with are rectangular and 1/4-inch on the long side, and the Durst pins are 1.5mm. I believe the Condit and Inglis pins are similar to the Durst.

I remember seeing some raised bosses on the Nega205 once (or maybe it was the Grane 205?), but there were 2 on each side for a total of 8, and they were more rectangular... I always thought they were for positioning a reduction frame or adapter, like the Mavet 138 (but I've never used that).

If you could post a picture, it would help.

resummerfield,

It has been a bit busy, so not yet able to do a photo of it.

I have not seen or used any registration system, so I can only speculate. I do find the use of rectangular pins (and presumeably rectangular punches) a little surprising from a fabrication and machining point of view with what little knowledge I have in those areas.

Locating a metal negative carrier would make a great deal of sense.

Drew,

The negative carrier goes in one way only, and the negative area is about 10x10". Therefore if you wanted to change the orientation of the negative (landscape versus portrait) while retaining registration, a second set of pins would make sense.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Len

[Drew Wiley]

Without a picture it's difficult to say. Condit film punches used micropins (about 1/16
inch diameter). Same with Durst. But prepress punch pins were frequently oval,
that is, rectangular but with rounded corners. There were many different systems.
Sometimes enlargers were used for prepress color separation work, and might have
been equipped with a custom pin configuration. You can often tell if the item is original Durst by the very clean machining of the entire accessory.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh - true registration carriers were always two-piece. You needed a fixed adapter,
then a precision pin tray slide into this and locked into place perfectly. If registration
is only approximate, the pins were never designed for film itself, but just for
reduction masks or something like that.

[Len Middleton]

Ok, let's see if I have attaching photos process right...

Attachment 55130 Attachment 55131 Attachment 55132

As you can see, the pads for the bosses were cast into the carrier itself, and thus an integral part of it.

As mentioned, it certainly would work well for locating a sheet metal insert, but is likely to damage the edge on a glass insert.

Hope the pictures help,

Len

[Drew Wiley]

Well, it's just half of something. It might have received an insert which actually did
have film registration pins. But if so, it's an early version. You might try looking at
diagrams on the Jensen Optical website for Durst carriers. I tried but couldn't quite
make out the details there either. There were several generations of GRANE and as
I recall they were mated to something called a GRAHAL.

[Len Middleton]

Drew,

Had not seen any diagrams at the Jensen Optical / Durst USA site on carriers, but then I was not looking either.

I do have a Durst GAHALON, as that is what the Grane is mounted on, in the picture. The knob at the bottom of the picture releases the Grane from the Grahalon, and the two grey pieces on the left and right hand sides of the picture holds it into position on the head. For clarity (reduced flash reflection), I removed the glass from the Grane.

Maybe I need to put an o-ring around each of those bosses to reduce the potential to chip the edge of the glass.

Thanks,

Len