Need Grubb Lens Expertise

[pgk]

Thanks Ron. FWIW the largest Grubb Petzval I've tracked down as still existing is here: https://collections.st-andrews.ac.uk...5339%2C2537&r=

[fabphoto73]

Here are two that don't appear to be on the list. Stereo pair 907 & 908. Not mine and can't remember the source.

[pgk]

Thanks. Stereo lenses are always of interest. My researches suggest that Samuel Bourne was a user of these but unfortunately very few stero photos are attributed to him as he preferred 12" x 10 prints from his Grubb 'C' Patent Lens. I would like to find evidence that Francis Bedford used Grubb stereo lenses; they certainly knew each other and corresponded.

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Thanks Ron. FWIW the largest Grubb Petzval I've tracked down as still existing is here: https://collections.st-andrews.ac.uk...5339%2C2537&r=

Intriguing Paul!
The description of St Andrews says it is lens nr. 1128, but looking closely at the picture it must be serial nr. 1428.

[pgk]

Intriguing Paul!
The description of St Andrews says it is lens nr. 1128, but looking closely at the picture it must be serial nr. 1428.

The Engravings can be difficult to make out. I have a couple which are very awkward to determine absolutely. Odd that for a maker who designed engraving machine for the Bank of Ireland, engraving is not always as well done as might be hoped!

[fabphoto73]

This may be of some interest from a 1860 Photographic Journal: An excerpt of correspondence between Thomas Grubb & Thomas Sutton regarding his Aplanatic lenses. Mr. Sutton refers to a photographic print he received from a professional photographer taken by a pair of Grubb lenses. Then later as a P.S. makes reference to the print belonging to Mr. Bedford( if I have read it correctly). I believe it is Francis Bedford since he is mentioned a few times elsewhere in the volume and having used Grubb lenses.

[pgk]

Sutton and Grubb spent a lot of energy in acrimonious debate in the photographic press. They did not get on at all. Sutton was an interesting character, clearly from a very privilged background and a wrangler from a prestigious university. He lived in London then Jersey and eventually moved to Pwllheli in North Wales which is where he dies - an up an coming seaside town in Victorian times but rather a backwater even soas it required curved plates. His Globe lens was somewhat impractcal and proved to be a dead end. His gripe was about Grubb's Patent lens concerned distrtion, which certainly existed, but could if need be be minimised by moving a stop on Grubb's lens closer towards the glass, at the expense of field of view. What started the argument off is not clear but Sutton does not seem to have appreciated Grubb's use of ray tracing and general understanding of optics. There was also disparaging comment by Sutton about Grubb being from Ireland which did little to support his arguments and by today's standards looks rather pathetic. Whilst Sutton had his positive aspects, his arguments with Grubb were something of a low point. Francis Bedford was evidently a satisfied Grubb user and even sent Lady Rosse a print upon which he wrote it had been taken on a Grubb lens, knowing that Lady Rosse knew Thomas Grubb; hardly the action of a disatisfied customer!

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Sutton and Grubb spent a lot of energy in acrimonious debate in the photographic press. They did not get on at all. Sutton was an interesting character, clearly from a very privilged background and a wrangler from a prestigious university. He lived in London then Jersey and eventually moved to Pwllheli in North Wales which is where he dies - an up an coming seaside town in Victorian times but rather a backwater even soas it required curved plates. His Globe lens was somewhat impractcal and proved to be a dead end. His gripe was about Grubb's Patent lens concerned distrtion, which certainly existed, but could if need be be minimised by moving a stop on Grubb's lens closer towards the glass, at the expense of field of view. What started the argument off is not clear but Sutton does not seem to have appreciated Grubb's use of ray tracing and general understanding of optics. There was also disparaging comment by Sutton about Grubb being from Ireland which did little to support his arguments and by today's standards looks rather pathetic. Whilst Sutton had his positive aspects, his arguments with Grubb were something of a low point. Francis Bedford was evidently a satisfied Grubb user and even sent Lady Rosse a print upon which he wrote it had been taken on a Grubb lens, knowing that Lady Rosse knew Thomas Grubb; hardly the action of a disatisfied customer!

Weren't the Sutton globe lenses made by Thomas Ross? ...clearly a competitor to Grubb, so we might understand better Suttons (unsympathetic) position from that angle of view....

[pgk]

Weren't the Sutton globe lenses made by Thomas Ross?

A history of Sutton's Globe lens is here: http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_L129.html

Sutton foresaw no problems with the curved field image. Unfortunately for him they didn't catch on. His 'rare' lenses now command high prices despite being an economic failure when produced. Such is the way of the world!

[Willeica]

Weren't the Sutton globe lenses made by Thomas Ross? ...clearly a competitor to Grubb, so we might understand better Suttons (unsympathetic) position from that angle of view....

Sutton's main claim to fame was as the taker of the world's first colour photograph, working with James Clerk Maxwell. He had an eye to the lens market and worked with Ross on the 1858 Sutton Triplet. I have heard it said that there was concern in London that Grubb might undercut London makers by virtue of the lower level of wages in Dublin at that time, but none of that could, even by the standards of the day, forgive Sutton's apparently racist opinions as expressed openly in the pages of the Journal.

Bedford acted as a user and 'influencer' for a number of lens manufacturers. I found writing in pencil on the back of a Grubb print which seems to say Mr F Bedford. I have sent that to Paul (pgk) for his opinion as to whether it is Bedford's name. It is not clear if that was written by Thomas Grubb, but there is other writing in pen, on the back of the same print, which is clearly from Thomas Grubb and which is obviously related to his patent application which was 'live' at the time of the writing.

Thomas Grubb did not have a university education and his son Howard was pulled out of Trinity College Dublin, without completing his degree, in order to work on the Great Melbourne Telescope. The Grubbs found other areas to exploit with their great abilities and work ethic and their achievements were widely recognised. The fact that they did not fully engage long term with the camera lens market does not detract from their achievements in the field of photographic lenses. I have used their lenses and have found them to be of the highest quality. A distinguished professor of optics to whom I showed some Grubb lenses recently was also very impressed.

William