The future of Kodak film?

[CG]

I'm usually a big fan and supporter of Kodak, but from what I have heard, they seem not to have consistently given reasonable notice for critical products being discontinued. Perhaps I have read erroneous reports on the net, but if a particular Kodak film product was critical to my work, I'd keep a massive stock as insurance.

[Pawlowski6132]

If Kodak announces they're getting out of the film basis, I don't think you'll have 1-6 months to decide anything. Maybe 1-6 days. And others have mentioned, I don't believe there are any proprietary chemicals Kodak mixes/makes that would leave a huge hole if they left that market.

[Sevo]

In a worse case scenario, if Kodak should announce it is shutting down its film production, I believe I will have 1-6 months notice to decide if I want to secure a life time supply of film. However, if I should make such a purchase, but cannot buy the chemistry I need to process it, then what good is it.

So what? The last Kodak film that needed Kodak chemistry was Kodachrome. Its developers never were available to anyone except for select Kodak partner labs, and the last processing line was closed weeks ago. If that is the threat you fear, you already are in a stew - and are off topic here, Kodachrome hasn't been made in large format for something like fifty years.

As far as other films and developers go, Fuji E-6 and C-41 compatible processes are guaranteed to develop to Kodak specifications, and there are several independent makers of compatible processes as well, both in Europe and the US. Black and white never was vendor specific, and all relevant classic developers have lost any patent protection they had ages ago, so that you can get developers of the same composition as D-76, HC-110 (or Rodinal, where the original maker already ceased to exist) from several vendors, or can read up their formula in books and roll your own (or even start a business that makes them) - which leaves only the reletively recent Xtol and maybe the T-Max developer that might still be patent protected and in limbo for a few years if Kodak folds.

Likewise, film is still being made by others - there are at least nine more makers of black and white sheet film still operating. Colour is a bit more at risk - Kodak and Fuji currently are the only ones to make colour sheet film. If both should fail simultaneously we can only hope that someone hires some of the laid-off staff and starts anew (or that Agfa Gevaert feels like re-entering the market).

[Mark Sampson]

Ken Lee's 'video' from the pyro developers thread seems appropriate here as well.

[Brian Ellis]

I haven't seen the recent business report - but as far as I know, Kodak is profitable with making and selling film! It's the digital sector that's worrying! Their fab in Rochester is highly advanced and efficient (I think they build it in 1996).

Unless some stupid shareholder/hedgefond-BS tries to intervene (and make it a "modern" company, sending the fab/ know-how to China) they have a chance.

Actually to the extent Kodak is doing well at anything, it's closer to the other way around:

"Full-year 2010 sales were $7.187 billion, a 6% decrease from the prior year. Full-year revenue from digital businesses grew by 1%, reflecting an 18% revenue increase in the company’s core growth businesses -- Consumer and Commercial inkjet, Packaging Solutions, and Workflow Software and Services -- and an increase in non-recurring intellectual property licensing agreements. Full-year 2010 consumer inkjet printer and ink revenue grew by 35%. Traditional revenue for 2010 decreased 22% from the prior year to $1.767 billion. . . . The company’s digital businesses delivered $301 million in earnings from operations for the year, a $308 million improvement from 2009. . . Revenue from the company’s traditional business decreased 25% to $439 million for the fourth quarter."

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...equestid=24118

I know I'm just an amateur but I know what terms like "decreased 22%" and "decreased 25%" mean.

[Pawlowski6132]

I heard THIS today and thought of this thread.

Look at the first example in the image slide show.

[Pavel+]

It seems like the traditional businesses, even though down, are far more profitable still than their digital side.

[Roger Cole]

I can live just fine without Kodak. I don't WANT to do so - I like the variety in color and I like Tri-X (better than HP5+ for some things) and, especially, TMZ, but I can survive with Ilford, Efke and Foma for BW and Fuji for a little color fix.

[Michael Kadillak]

You're reading a bunch of amatuer opinions, and worried over nothing (start looking at what other mfrs are doing, and that is what counts). Don't just look at film sales (they decreased for a reason....market now shared with digital, and photoshop killed need for different flavors of film, therefore we buy far less today). The key to remember is whether a need still exists for large format film. Presently large format satisfies 3 needs....max quality, ability to print very big, and affordablility (and digital has a way to go before they catch up, especially with regards to pricing). If you sell your 8x10, are you ready to spend $40k for the DB plus lens, body, etc? Instead of looking at one variable in the industry (film sales)....look also at what the rest of the industry is doing.

Number of Mrs- Over 15+ large format mfrs, and none are closing.

Product Lines- are expanding, more choices and formats then ever before. Check out Toyo, Chamonix, Ebony. We now have 5x8, 7x17, etc. Something you didn't see 10 years ago.

Product Differentiation- is taking place (variations of same product, even if just in color choice). You don't see this happening in a dying market. We now have 2 choices of 617 view cameras by both Shen Hao and Ebony.

New product introductions-you don't develop new products for a dying market. Recent new products are a new Schneider 350mm lens, a 2nd Bessa 6x7 (two on market now), Reflecta 120 scanner announced for June 2011, Pacifica 120 scanner allowing 612, 2 new films by Kodak (Ektar was introduced first for 35mm, and later in large format up to 8x10...doesn't sound like they are giving up on us). Epson is also bringing out the V900 scanner. Also check out the new products just out by Fotoman China....Fotoman 69H, Fotoman FD66, Fotoman 69S, and DMax (just up on their website).

Existing products updated- eg- Fotoman, Linhof (technicas, technorama). They must see a future in film (they have to recover their investment).

I've said all this stuff at least 10 times now. Until we're down to only a few large format mfrs, and a very narrow product lines.....I am not worried. I also am not going to spend $40k for a digial back that looking at appears to be worth about the same as my car alternator. I am not getting value per dollar like I do with large format.

A man I can really relate to. Wells stated and right on point.

The only time I feel hooked into planned obsolescence that seems so much a part of the digital photographer of the day is every other year when I purchase two or three new Apple computers for myself and my family. Financially painful and glad when it is completed. I would go nuts expending the resources necessary to stay up to date in this arena. It is a good thing that I chose not to go down this road.

[Stephen Willard]

The comments here have been very well thought out, but who really knows what Kodak will actually do. My guess is they will not simply stop producing film. It is still generating a good chunk of revenue, and thus, it has value that can be sold to another company. So why stop production when they can sell it and make a profit.

I shoot exclusively Kodak Portra 160 VC, and I use TMAX for building masks. I could use any b&w film for making mask, but color film is another matter. I have built characteristic curves and done Mackbeth color chart graphs for every color negative film on the market, and Portra VC is the most amazing film in every aspect compared to all other films. If I lost VC 160 it would have a negative impact on how I shoot film for sure.

Just for the record, I have had record breaking sales this year, and all of it is big stuff. Big panoramics that frame up to 60" are my biggest sellers. My market is people who have big wallets that live in big country homes that have big walls, and they want to hang big art on their big walls.

As a landscape photographer who packs everything into the back country with llamas, digital of any format is not plausible due to its power requirements. On my last trip I spent 26 days in Wind River Wyoming without coming out to replenish for food or film. So I need film. Even if I could have access to power, doing big digitally is way to expensive compared to using big film.

I am poised to make a large purchase of 8x10 which I then will cut to 5x7 and 4x10. In fact, I may start buying blocks of 50 boxes until I have purchased between 100 - 200 boxes over a period of a year. The company that owns Kodak chemistry is a small privately owned company that has been in business for 25 years and has a world wide marketing network for distributing its chemistry. My guess is that they will be around for some time. So even though I do not want to commit any resources for purchasing a large chunk of film, I suspect that I will be doing so because of the uncertainty of the film market.