Dagor Confusion

[Scotty230358]

Having searched this forum and done quite a bit of reading I am somewhat confused.

I have a lens that is marked "CP Goerz Berlin Dagor Series III f6.8 120mm No 610814". There are no markings on the rear of the lens.

Now - There are conflicting posts about these lenses. So far I have read that

a) Burke and James lenses (that usually enjoy a poor reputation) are simply marked

BERLIN DAGOR

b) lenses marked like mine are not Burke and James lenses but "pukka" Goerz lenses.

However other posts suggest that lenses marked the same as mine are said Burke and James lenses and that Goerz lenses are marked "CP Goerz Berlin Dagor Serie III"

Could someone who knows about these lenses tell me have I got a Goerz lens or a Burke and James "booty glass special".

I have attached a photo.

Thank you.

[Ash]

It won't make a huge difference unless you're looking to sell it.

The Double-Anastigmat formula became a popular one for many manufacturers because of the good quality results.

To me it looks a bit too clean and modern to be an old German one, but I may be wrong.

[John Schneider]

As I remember, real Berlin Dagors said "Serie"; B&J versions said "Series."

[Dan Fromm]

Whatever it is, its been reshuttered. The lens' s/n puts it in 1923, probably, or a little later but certainly before 1926. The Compur Rapid was introduced in 1934. Both dates from P-H Pont's little book.

Shoot it and be happy.

[DanK]

Whatever it is, its been reshuttered. The lens' s/n puts it in 1923, probably, or a little later but certainly before 1926. The Compur Rapid was introduced in 1934. Both dates from P-H Pont's little book.

Shoot it and be happy.

Dan,

Speaking of shutters, was an Optimo shutter ever an original mount for a Dagor...

Thanks,
Dan

[Scotty230358]

Whatever it is, its been reshuttered. The lens' s/n puts it in 1923, probably, or a little later but certainly before 1926. The Compur Rapid was introduced in 1934. Both dates from P-H Pont's little book.

Shoot it and be happy.

I would conclude that if the lens is between 1923 and 1926 it is probably not one of those "booty glass specials" of ill repute. I was looking to sell it but did state in the auction that I doubted it was in the same league as those Dagors that command the really high prices. In fact my asking price was a tad over $150. Apart from its compact size and incredibly light weight it is not of sufficient "character" to make it a substitute for my 125mm Fuji lens (unlike the meniscus lens that nice Mr Galli sold me). If it does not sell I'll just keep it as a spare. I think I paid just under $200 for it.

[Dan Fromm]

Dan, I don't know for sure, don't see why not. Goerz was in the lens business, not very much in the shutter business.

There's a Dagor, focal length not specified in the listing and not visible in the product shot but probably not very long, in an Optimo on eBay right now. I thought about buying it for a few seconds, then decided that if the Optimo needs service I can't provide it and it isn't clear who can.

[goamules]

Dan, you probably know this, but all the Optimo shutters I've ever handled worked well and were fairly accurate. They are reliable.

On the mix and match Dagors B&J made, I always heard they just read "Berlin Dagor" with no "Goerz" on them. Someone who has one of the good and bad should make a webguide..... this question comes up a lot, with a lot of guesswork...like I'm doing!

[Steven Tribe]

These 1900-1920's 120mm dagors started their life as the best option on the Goerz tenax 9x12 folder and, until recently at least, could be picked up for very little when still attached to a ruined 9x12. But you take a chance with the reliability of the original dial shutter.

[E. von Hoegh]

This one is marked "Series".
Also, by the time CPG Berlin got to the 600,000 range they were no longer using the "Serie" designation.
Therefore it is a B&J remount, which does not mean it is junk - it might be just fine.