Is it a Dallmeyer 3D or something else?

[Jon Wilson]

Hi, I originally posted this on another thread, but did not get any response...probably due to the fact it was pretty much buried in the thread. That being the case, I have now posted it here:

The "slip on barrel" sleeve identifies this lens as a JH Dallmeyer f6.3 12x10 3D Patent lens made in London No. 30678. The glass configuration is just like the lens in my Dallmeyer 4D and 5D Patent lens, just smaller. The rear set of lens have 4 notch areas approximate equal distances from the other (cross or X layout). The lens is 3 7/8 inches long and diameter of 2 3/8 inches. I cannot find any reference to a 3D Dallmeyer lens which has a f6.3 aperture and a 12x10 designated coverage. It has an aperture lever with 11, 16, 22, 36, 44 designations.

I have not been able to find any literature for the Dallmeyer 3D being an f6.3 aperture.

I below are links to a picture of the lens and a couple of pictures I took with this lens and my Pacemaker....LOVE that focal plane shutter for these barrel lens.

I think this will link the pictures here.....

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...5&d=1264824617
http://www.largeformatphotography.in...6&d=1264824632
http://www.largeformatphotography.in...7&d=1264824645

All assistance is shedding light on this lens is appreciated. Thank you. Jon

[Steven Tribe]

I have the feeling this might be something else. The old Dallmeyer f scale means that their F6.3 corresponds to about f8 modern scale. This sounds awfully familar.
Measuring the focal length would help. I think it might be around 16"?

[CCHarrison]

Are you sure the writing ( 12x10 and 6.3 ) on the lens is original ?

The 3D had a lens diameter of 2 1/8, coverage up to 10x8 and was f/6 in speed.

Dan

[Jon Wilson]

Are you sure the writing ( 12x10 and 6.3 ) on the lens is original ?

The 3D had a lens diameter of 2 1/8, coverage up to 10x8 and was f/6 in speed.

Dan

Dan, the writing is original, but I can't confirm it came originally with this lens. The configuration of the lens are the same as found on my 4D and 5D Patent Dallmeyer lens. I can't confirm the aperture was original or installed later. I will get my caliber out and confirm the diameter of the lens and that of the glass, etc.

Jon

[Jon Wilson]

I now have this lens in front of me and can confirm there are 3 sets of lens. The front appears to be [front pointing left] ( the middle lens is ) and the rear cell is )
The rear cells measured with the digital caliber are 2.024 inches and the front lens cell is 2.132 inches. It appears to be approximately a 13 inch focal length (aperture to the focused imaged on the wall); which if correct is very close to the f6.3 on the barrel sleeve. The barrel has an overall length of 4.029 inches (that is with the rear cells screwed all the way into the barrel).

Any thought as to the aperture scale on the lens? An English scale?

It is missing the focusing rack and someone cut a waterhouse slot into the barrel in front of the aperture lever. I double checked the writing and it does have 12x10 f6.3. 1st line has JH Dallmeyer in script; 2nd line:serial # xxxxx London; 3rd line: 3D; 4th line: 12x10 Patent (centered under Patent) f6.3

I am going to put this lens on my 11x14 and see how much coverage it has and compare it to my 4D and 5D Patent Dallmeyer lens.

I know this lens is not the same lens as the one which closed on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...OIBUAA:US:1123
Which IMO is a very nice lens that is easier to use than some of the Dallmeyer Patent lens which have the softening achieved by unscrewing the rear cell, BUT it seems bidders went wild for this rather small polished brass 3D portrait lens.

On the other hand, my lens appears to be of similar design with a slightly larger coverage area.

I appreciate everyone's assistance in shedding some light on this lens. Jon

[Steven Tribe]

Now what I write is purely speculation and "the answer" may come from somebody.

- The F6.3 seems to be the correct speed expressed in the modern F scale.

- I don't believe that Dallmeyer lenses this early had maximum F written here - if they had, it would have been the old Dallmeyer scale.

- The D series was made over a long period of time and the e**y item you refer to was a late design.

- The brass sleeve looks to me like an early Dallmeyer RR which also had the patent text and where also had the coverage size written on them - in this case 12x10 (note, the correct sequence for size descriptions at this time).

- The diameter size of the sleeve would be about right for a rectilinear for 12x10 efl 16" giving about F8.

- Copperplate engraving skills were still widespread at this time (amateurs and photographic dealers).

- 2" - 2 1/8" diameter was a very popular size for projection petzvals.

My guess is that this is a old sleeve from a surplus Dallmeyer RR with some genuine engraving which has has the 3D and F6.3 added. It has been matched up with a suitable Petzval - perhaps of real quality - to make a slightly less fast petzval with a soft option. The conclusive evidence, in my view, is that the waterhouse slot has been put in afterwards - as you mention.

[eddie]

jon, is it a petzval design for sure? did you take apart the rear elements and verify they are air spaced? the front is cemented...right?

most of the ones i see with aperture levers were made more recently. 1900 and later.

eddie

[Jon Wilson]

jon, is it a petzval design for sure? did you take apart the rear elements and verify they are air spaced? the front is cemented...right?

most of the ones i see with aperture levers were made more recently. 1900 and later.

eddie

Yes, the rear elements are air spaced and like other Dallmeyer Patent lens I have the distance between the elements are adjustable since they are threaded with a distance of approximately .27 air space distance between the rear elements BEFORE that distance can be increased by unscrewing the elements apart.

The front element is cemented. Although the front element glass is clean, there is slight separation around the front element's edge which is approximately .1 inch. It should not affect the image given its location.

Jon

[Jon Wilson]

Now what I write is purely speculation and "the answer" may come from somebody.

- The F6.3 seems to be the correct speed expressed in the modern F scale.

- I don't believe that Dallmeyer lenses this early had maximum F written here - if they had, it would have been the old Dallmeyer scale.

- The D series was made over a long period of time and the e**y item you refer to was a late design.

- The brass sleeve looks to me like an early Dallmeyer RR which also had the patent text and where also had the coverage size written on them - in this case 12x10 (note, the correct sequence for size descriptions at this time).

- The diameter size of the sleeve would be about right for a rectilinear for 12x10 efl 16" giving about F8.

- Copperplate engraving skills were still widespread at this time (amateurs and photographic dealers).

- 2" - 2 1/8" diameter was a very popular size for projection petzvals.

My guess is that this is a old sleeve from a surplus Dallmeyer RR with some genuine engraving which has has the 3D and F6.3 added. It has been matched up with a suitable Petzval - perhaps of real quality - to make a slightly less fast petzval with a soft option. The conclusive evidence, in my view, is that the waterhouse slot has been put in afterwards - as you mention.

Thanks Steve. I appreciate your excellent points. Like you, I suspect the old sleeve was added at some point, but there is no denying the petzval configuration. This lens has lots of potential, especially since I have been able to attach it to a Pacemaker lens board. The Pacemaker's focal plane shutter is sweet. As a side note, I was able to acquire a Graflex WP focal plane shutter which just purrrs. I now need to fit it to one of my WP cameras.

Jon

[goamules]

If it has the four set's of notches, and a pin indicating where the "home" position is, it's a dallmeyer inner part. The iris mechanism was probably added later. My 3D is serial number 41,xxx and it is just with a waterhouse slot. The difference is your focal length (about 3 inches longer), and the coverage and speed markings. Otherwise, it looks very close to the 3Ds I've handled. I've noted there is variation in the D models, some are "long focus" and some ads from different periods show different parameters. Perhaps yours was a special order. I'd consider it an original Dallmeyer of non-typical configuration.