First time buying a 4x5...begging for assistance.

[Andrew Cole]

Lots of good posts re: the camera and lens decision. I agree on leaving the more esoteric accessories to her, but since you're new to view cameras, here is a short list of the things that you need to make one of these work:

The Camera The Lens A Lensboard A Tripod (with head) Film Holders Film

There are a ton of other things that are helpful (almost necessary), but you can take a photo with these things alone, and you cannot without all of them (except arugably the tripod).

If you buy a kit, there's a good chance you'll get everything but the film and the tripod, but if you buy separately, and want to get her a "complete" photo making machine, make sure you have each of these.

As for stores, I've been extremely happy with Midwest Photo Exchange (mentioned earlier). Their staff is super helpful and guided me to several of my first purchases. Their used selection is pretty extensive too.

For new stuff (film especially), I really like B&H, very professional and good prices. It's a much bigger operation than Midwest though, and you might not get the same personal attention. B&H does have a used department that is pretty good also.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other great stores that deal over telephone/internet, but my experiences have been mostly with B&H and Midwest. KEH is good too, but I've only dealt with their 35mm and medium format gear, so don't know too much about their large format.

Now, for accessories that are not absolutely necessary, but pretty much everyone uses:

Darkcloth Focusing Loupe Meter Polaroid Back

The Darkcloth is the subject of great debate, but can be improvised until she figures out what she wants. The Focusing Loupes can be very expensive, but you can at least start with a simple <$10 one that Ritz camera carries for looking at 35mm negatives on the light table. The meter is going to be something she should probably pick out herself based on what she's doing with the camera.

Finally, the Polaroid back. While arguably the least necessary of the previously mentioned items, from a gift excitement point of view, could be pretty cool. With the Polaroid back, she could pull the camera out of the wrapping, go outside and make a photo immediately. I'd bet that almost all of us shooting 4x5 have the 545 or 545i holder in our bags, and she'd probably want to get one pretty shortly after getting the camera anyway. They make a number of different films for this holder (color print, black and white print, positive negative [my personal fav.]).

Without the polaroid, she'd have to load film holders and process film before getting a result, i.e. it could be some time before she's able to "use" the camera.

Again, it depends on your budget, etc. The Polaroid holder runs about $100 used and a box of film runs about $50-$60 I think.

[Noshir Patel]

I haven't read the above answers, so if I'm repeating one, oops...

Given her interest in studio work, make sure you get a monorail view camera. A wooden field camera looks beautiful but is really inferior to a monorail except in the portability department (and more expensive, on the low end at least). I have a wooden camera, but then my interest is hiking and taking nature photos. Calumet sells an inexpensive monorail (the Cadet) that is well regarded from what I've read. Whatever you get, I'd buy from a reputable dealer and take delivery shortly before you're going to give it. That way it can be exchanged easily if she would really prefer something else. Be willing to spend more on the lens than on the camera. After all, the lens creates the image, the camera just holds the lens and film in place... New Nikon, Schneider, Rodenstock, and Fuji lenses are all good. Again, since it's studio usage, look for larger image circles. There is a great lens comparison table (and tons of other great info, much of it for the first time buyer/user) at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~qtluong/photography/lf/

While this violates the "Don't give women anything useful" rule (sticking to aesthetic gifts like jewelry, flowers, etc.) I have to think this gift is going to be a winner.

[Andrew Mead]

Thanks for all of your help guys and gals, this is invaluable.

In speaking with a dealer, a Horseman system was suggested. Here are the specs. ..

Horseman LE Camera, Schneider 150mm Apo Symmar lens and panel.

Anyone have experience with this camera? Pros/cons? This appears to be in the ne ighborhood of my price points (ha). Any feedback as always is appreciated

-Andrew

[Charlie Stracl]

The Horseman LE is a fine camera, and many studio photographers use this type of camera.

I think 150mm is a bit too short for the type of photography you've described. For studio work, you generally want to get farther back from the subject to get better "drawing". I'd try a 210mm, maybe even longer.

[Ellis Vener]

Don't ask a dealer. Ask her or if not her, then her teacher. A dealer wants to sell you what they have. I agree about a 210mm sounding right. BUt ask her instructor.

[Don Welch]

I use a Horseman LX-C, heavier and with some more movements than the LE, but I would recommend you strongly conside the LE if you can afford it. As others have said, 150mm may be a bit short for an only lens, but I made out fine with a 180mm for a while before I got a more rounded out group of lenses (over a period of years). 210mm would be even better.

[Neal Shields]

Call B&H and get their Professional Photo SourceBook. It is $9.95 and lists everything, with prices and pictures. TALK TO HER PROFESSORS,they probably know exactly what she wants.

If you really want to knock her socks off, get her a Wisner, but you might have to sell your car and start riding a bicycle.

I have made Christmas present purchases for my wife from B&H before and they agreed to extend their aproval period 15 days from Dec 25, not the purchase date. They also offer a extra cost warranty for used cameras. However, everyone else that has been mentioned I have had good luck with or heard good things about.

The only thing I purchased from Midwest turned out to be defective and I had no problems at all returning it a getting a refund. That is the real test of a retailer...when things go wrong.

Beware leaking bellows on used equipment, especially Linhof. I purchased a used Technica and stuck a flashlight inside the bellows and the pinholes looked like the sky on a clear night. Replacement bellows can be very expensive.

I have found that if you have time and watch Ebay and know what you want, you can save about half. However, the other night I tried to buy this year's christmas present for my wife and it went for about 75% of list and about $30 OVER what I could buy it brand new out of NY for.

[Dave_958]

Andrew: Please read Using the View Camera Author: Steve Simmons Binding: Hardcover, 144 pages Publisher: Watson-Guptill Publications, Incorporated Published Date: 10/01/1992. I think it is the ideal book for your purposes. Best of luc

[Fred De Van]

Listen to Charlie and Don, a 150mm lens is too short and very annoying to attempt to use for her needs that you describe. A 210mm is minimum and the lens that will fit over 50% of her needs. A 300mm is a class act. Look to the Schnieders and Rodenstocks, they do things the others don't. Some of the best lenses are no longer made but they remain the standards of the realm. Those are the Ektars, made by Kodak. The 10 inch Wide Field Ektar, the 12 inch Commercial Ektar and the series of Voightlander Apo-Lanthars are the true Jewels of the still life world. She will love you forever, and never part with one. They are not hard to find or too expensive.

Still life and studio photography is not about ease, in is about craft and skill. Do not listen to that stuff about no yaw and other nonesense. It is marketing and has no effect on sensitivity and true feel for the craft. As a Sinar user, I can tell you there are aspects of the over attention to engineering that can be annoying and non intuitive. A good Horseman or even a Cambo can be less intrusuive, but there is no arguing that as machines the Sinar and the Arca Swiss are two of the finest there is. In Practice at times a 60 year old floppy deardorf is the tool that works best, even with all of its limitations. The 4x5 and 8x10 Granview cameras are amazing field cameras and there is nothing in the world like them. For a starter camera with the most flexability and ruggedness I would look first to the Horseman. Make sure you do not fall into the trap of buying a basic Sinar only to find it too short for use in the studio with a 210mm lens. That is the most annoying thing possible and many basic cameras are too short for still life use.

[Neal Shields]

I checked my B&H catalogue which may not be quite current but will give you an idea of new 4x5 view camera prices:

Arca Swiss Discovery $1344. Horseman LE $1345. Linhof Kardan E $1999.00 Sinar F1 $1850

Most of these cameras can serve as platforms that she can add on to vertually forever.

Schneider G Claron 210mm F9 $711. Nikon M 200mm F8 $609. Rodenstock APO Sironar F5.6 $989 All are in Copal shutters.

Wisner 4X5 Traditional field $1495 (probably not what she needs but I just like pretty wood.)