Pyrocat HD Failure Images

[IanG]

A quick search of this forum shows you've been whinging about Pyrocat for 5 years now.

The fact that you can show negatives that in your estimation are fine shows quite clearly that there's nothing wrong with the developer per se.

The fact that many well known photographers and thousands of others use the developer day in day out would indicate that as the developer itself is fine it's your technique.

A quick glance at the negatives you've scanned show exposures that appear wildly off, my gut feeling is your not remotely close to an optimum EI and development time.

Poor workmen blame their tools, or in this case the developer. I think you need to look much closer at other aspects of your exposure & development techniques.

I'd suggest finding someone who lives near you to work alongside and learn from, help you clear up these issue.

Ian

[IanG]

I'll go further and make you an offer:

You fly out here for a week (accomadation and food is extremely cheap) and I'll personally run you through using Pyrocat HD in a variety of situations and I'll make images alongside you, I know my negs will be fine.

I'll add that I've just returned from showing around 60 images to a couple who collect photography and every image was made in the last 12 months with a variety of films but all developed in Pyrocat HD, they are now deciding which 2 possibly 3 images to buy.

Ian

[Andre Noble]

IanG, My EI for FP4+ of 32 is admittedly likely too high by one stop.

I have returned from a three year hiatus in photography, so I have been whinning about pyrocat HD for two years, not five.

It was my whinning that prompted Mr. king and others to press PF to make their Pyrocat kits in glycol, by the way. I talked to PF last week, and they mentioned they now sell many more of the glycol based kits than their water based kits of pyrocat.

I feel no apology is needed. I criticized the developer and many have justifiably criticized my technique in return.

It's helping me to become a better photographer, fine. If it's bringing to mention that this developer is very finicky as to oxidation, contamination, and capacity fine.

If I had money and free time I would take you up on your offer for the workshop in the Aegean (You're not trying to pick me up, are you).

[Jeremy Moore]

My EI for FP4+ of 32 is admittedly likely too high by one stop.

My EI for FP4+ in Pyrocat HD 1:1:100 is 64, yet you're saying you should be shooting at 16 and yet I still find your negatives to be sorely underexposed. Maybe it's your metering technique that's causing all of these problems.

If it's bringing to mention that this developer is very finicky as to oxidation, contamination, and capacity fine.

I completely disagree as NOTHING you have shared/provided in these two recent posts in regards to Pyrocat HD has shown that it is a problem with the chemistry.

[Ken Lee]

"No Michael, the developer tarnished my marvelous images."

"Humility makes great men twice honorable" - Benjamin Franklin

[IanG]

You're not trying to pick me up, are you.

No I'm happily married

And my wife cooks mean meat balls

I
f it's bringing to mention that this developer is very finicky as to oxidation, contamination, and capacity fine.
If I had money and free time I would take you up on your offer for the workshop in the Aegean.

There's never been anything wrong with Pyrocat HD developer itself.

Pyrocatechin has a tendency to oxidise, I use it in other applications where it oxidises very rapidly.

From here-say I've heard that the early Pyrocat from the PF didn't keep well, but then I found that out for myself when I stored my first batch in the wrong type of plastic bottles.

That has zero to do with Sandy King himself or his formula and is entirely down to who bottles the developer. In my case I rapidly spotted the problem (with no film failures) but also knew why, so could solve it.

Stored properly Pyrocat HD is as good as many other concentrated developer, without Glycol it has a shelf life of over 18 months, in the right packaging even part full.

With normal darkroom practice and cleanliness there are NO issues of oxidation, contamination or capacity, it's remarkably consistent and certainly not finicky.

Ian

[eddie]

A quick search of this forum shows you've been whinging about Pyrocat for 5 years now.


Ian

har har har!

I'll go further and make you an offer:

You fly out here for a week (accomadation and food is extremely cheap) and I'll personally run you through using Pyrocat HD in a variety of situations and I'll make images alongside you, I know my negs will be fine.



Ian

can i come?!?!?

IT IS YOUR SHUTTER!

i have posted this twice already. you have yet to address the issue. what kind of shutter are you using? has it been CLAd lately? show us some E6 shots with it so we know it is (not) your shutter. i bet it is!



This message has been deleted by sanking. Reason: No reason for more dialog with this person.

i am with sandy on this!

[Andre Noble]

Ian, please forgive me, since I moved to Los Angeles California, when I meet a man, I don’t assume anything anymore.

Ken, by marvelous I was referring to the marvelous subject matter in marvelous little towns I visited.

Jeremy, by “one stop too high”, I meant one stop over exposed. So, I agree with you 64 ASA is a more reasonable ASA for FP4+. Thanks for the clarification.

eddie (with a small "e"), it’s not my shutter. These are two separate lenses, both almost brand new lenses. Admittedly, my EI is one stop too high, and my metering off. But my shutters are fine, thanks for your suggestion.

Mr. King, I apologize if I have caused you distress. I appreciate the passion you have for your baby. I am just an average idiot who is trying to use something I'm not qualified to use.

[sanking]

Mr. King, I apologize if I have caused you distress. I appreciate the passion you have for your baby. I am just an average idiot who is trying to use something I'm not qualified to use.

Andre,

Thank you . I accept your apology, and no hard feelings. I hope this experience does not diminish your enthusiasm for film photography.

All of us have made mistakes in developing film. Making a mistake is not always a bad thing because it can also serve as a real growing and learning experience. I must admit that more than once I have made mistakes with several different developers that ruined a day of field work or a day of testing. And sometimes the cause was not immediately apparent, though I have learned that good red wine and careful work with chemicals in the darkroom don't go together.

Sandy King

[Andre Noble]

After a couple of beers and a few hours of sleep I awoke in the middle of the night with a revelation with what I think the problem was, and the theory would explain the wide variation in density I achieved with the six runs.

It's not chemical contamination - I am sloppy, but not THAT sloppy.

Even though I was using a jobo cpp2 with a full water bath, the issue I believe is lack of consistent temperature control.

I did not use a pre-soak on any of these runs. Its a bad habit I have gotten into on my return to darkroom work lately. I used to always use a pre-soak.

I recently moved to a new apt. In the process of paking to move, my previous landlord tossed my 1000ml jobo bottles (that I used to keep my wash water tempered in) thinking they were merely empty reagent containers, perhaps. So on all these runs, some of my final washes consited of cold distilled water - some from jugs sitting at room temp, sometimes from jugs recently pulled from the fridge in a room cooled by AC.

Likewise, a few months ago I use SS tanks in a room cooled by my AC without a pre-soak. The film came out the same as my recent failed runs. Nevertheless, I did not throw out the three year old pyrocat, moved to my new apt., and used it successfully on another batch of film.

With a run of 6 mins, and on some runs starting with a tank that may have been too warm or too cold - even though my working developer was at proper temperature, lack of a pre-soak with tempered water, combined with the large piece of plastic of the 3000 series drum, resulted in uncontrolled process temps, and the wide variation in negative densities.

So the slop in my technique was likely lack of precise temperature control, despite the Jobo CPP2. I am going to make a huge note of this for the future with ALL developers.

Also, I have two sets of 1000ml Jobo bottles in route from B&H.