LF Opinions: 4x5 Field Camera for approx $1000, used or new

[rugenius]

The majority of all photography I have been accomplishing over the last 23 years has been with a Rollei 3.5F TLR. In that time I've learned how to get the niche shots that are representative of my own style,... short focal, mostly people and landscape, compressed, short DOF, unreal imagery...
Anyway,... The time has come for a new adventure...
My wife and I have had other odd ball vintage cameras that we refurbished and used including a Speed Graphic. Nothing satisfying to date...

We would like to spend approx $1000 or less for a new or used LF camera system. Problem is.... soooo many darned choices, metal, and wood version,...
Being able to get into the field is essential.
Compactness is probably more important than weight to some degree.
Quality is an absolute. But that doesn't mean sacrificing practicality versus snooty.
The lens selection will likely be as follows:
80 mm wide to 300mm Macro/ perhaps 375mm tele.
Non-experienced with telephoto work. Most all work has been accomplished using macro and portrait lenses.
Film: Velvia 50, XXTechPanXX, Ilford PanF 50, TMax 400, Ilford 3200, have been favorite media.

We are ready to expand a bit and explore other techniques. Complete versatility and freedom of movement is highly desired. I have an R&D machine shop at work and could make widgets as necessary to complement the experience...

I have contemplated used versions of:
Toyo 45AII
Canham DLC 4X5
Ebony 45SU
ETC,...
New cameras we have glanced at are:
Chamonix
Shen Hao

In short,... I am dumbfounded by the multitude of forum responses and cannot see through the trees to get to the forest.
Please help.
Thx,
Bill

[Ari]

I paid about $1000 for a Linhof Technika III (version 5) and a Fujinon 210. You will not find a more durable, well-built camera. It has limited movements compared to some other cameras, but it will last a lifetime.

[Robert A. Zeichner]

What were your objections to the Speed Graphic? I enjoy shooting with a Rollei 3.5f as well and have also done some limited work with a Graflex RB Super D 4x5 SLR (which I have up for sale on this forum btw). Working with any 4x5 field camera is going to be very different experience from a roll film TLR. Is your quest for a bigger negative or a more contemplative, slower process? The image below is one I made with the Graflex, handheld. 190 mm Kodak Ektar lens.

[Frank Petronio]

If you find a clean used Linhof Technika IV (the III with qualifications) they are the closest thing in a large format camera to your Rolleiflex, in terms of quality and "personality". You may need to budget for a new bellows on a 60-year old camera, and it is always nicer to find one already with a lens properly cammed to the rangefinder, so finding a good user for $1000 will require patience.

But all the cameras you mentioned are excellent and since people have to use a camera for a bit to decide whether it is for them, I recommend promiscuity, in the camera sense of course.

[eddie]

i consider my chamonix the end all cure all. my friend just got a super nice tech camera. that looks awesome as well. but i think he paid like $2000 for it. IMO the $700 i paid for my new chamonix gives it the edge.

down side of the Cham is you have to wait to get one or buy it used (both will run you about the same money.)

i have used 65mm lens (tight. oi would have loved a recessed lens board) and use a 90mm regularly. i have an extension piece that allows me to shoot longer lenses. at 3 pounds it is small, light and has plenty of movements. i can fit the camera, a small lens, and 4-6 film holders or a grafmatic, and my pentax spot meter into a tamrac expedition 3 backpack (an absurdly small 35mm camera sized bag).

hope this helps.

eddie

[Bob Salomon]

You are in Santa Cruz, very near Palo Alto as well as Monterey. A good large format dealer is in Monterey (Cameras West) and two are in Palo Alto (K&S and Bear Images). Rather then reading multiple personal opinions why not just take a drive and look at all kinds at these stores. Not only that, they all have people who know how they work so you can make a choice based on what you see and feel. Do note, it would be very unlikely that you would find a new camera at the price you want at a dealer but they will have lots of used ones.

[Brian Ellis]

I won't suggest a specific camera but rather an approach you might take to narrowing down the field.

Since you seem to have a good idea of the lens focal length range you'll be using, that's a good place to start winnowing out cameras. For the 300mm lens you mention you should have about 15 inches or more of bellows extension so you could eliminate any camera that doesn't have at least that much (and for your macro work you might want even longer. For 80mm (75mm is actually much more common) you'll want a camera that will allow you to compress the bellows easily and still leave some room for movements, hopefully without need for a recessed lens board but the recessed board isn't critical, they're a little bit of a pain to use but not that bad in my experience. That's likely to eliminate any camera with a really long bellows (e.g. ones in the 20 inch and up range). Since you like wide angles, and might some day want to go shorter than 75mm, you could eliminate cameras that won't accept a bag bellows.

Since you do field work you might pick a camera weight and eliminate any over that weight. For me 6 lbs was about the most I wanted to carry and 4 lbs is better (you'll notice a 2 lb difference even though it's relatively small percentage of the total weight in a back pack).

Then think about features. What movements does it have (for the landscape and portrait work you mention extensive movements aren't needed but IMHO any LF camera should have front tilt, swing, and rise and back tilt and swing. That would eliminate some of the LF cameras that have no back movements. Does it come with a Fresnel lens on the viewing screen - if not, that could be an added expense down the road.

These aren't hard and fast rules, just a possible approach you might take to narrowing down the field. There are work-arounds for most of them. E.g. you can use a telphoto lens to reduce the 15 inch bellows length I mention so if you found a camera that had everything you wanted except 15 inches of bellows, you might go for it. I think the most important thing is to not get too hung up on your first LF camera. As Frank said, until you've used a LF camera for a while it's hard to figure out what's really important to you and what isn't. So your first one likely won't be your last if you find you really like LF photography and if you buy a used camera in excellent condition you should be able to sell it for about what you paid for it.

[Archphoto]

You want both a 75mm and a 300mm with macro and that cries to me "Monorail", but that is not what you want it seems....

A 75mm and a field: the Shen Hao's, any time: lots of mevements, low weight and solid build quality at the price of half of the Chamonix.
I got my almost new cased HZH45-IIA for € 500,- including shipping at the beginning of the year without a lens as an addition to my Sinar P2 8x10/4x5 set.
I did not and do not have the money for a Linhof Master Technika, and even then, the Shen has more movement front and aft compared to the Master.

Sinar versus Shen: the Sinar will handle both the 75mm and the 300mm in macro, but is a heavy studio camera, esp with the 300 in macro.
The Shen will give you lots of great shots outdoors, but keep in mind that shooting with LF is diferent compared to shooting with a Rolleiflex, I have a 2.8F Planar aswell.

Rethinking again I am afraid.....

Peter

[Don Hutton]

The image below is one I made with the Graflex, handheld. 190 mm Kodak Ektar lens.

On the west side of Cranbrook?

[tgtaylor]

Bill,

My recommendation would be to get a technical field - one that has rise, fall, tilt, swing and shift on the front standard, and tilt and swing on the rear standard. The Toyo is an excellent choice (I own and use one and can personally vouch for it) as well as a number of other makes.

The last time I was in Camera West they had a number of used 4x5's to look at and I imagine they also carry new models as well. Would be a good idea to take a hands on look at them before making the plunge. IMO, it's important that you like the looks of your camera as well as its handling and features.

This is a good time to buy used. Prices are cheap!

Thomas