grafmatic style holders for 9x12

[monkeymon]

This is probably an stupid question, but have there ever been anything like grafmatic for european style 9x12 press cameras? Or did they just shoot pack film?

I shoot a lot of 9x12 on my rangefinder folder, it's much nicer that speed graphic on all other ascpects but the single sheet holders. I'll keep shooting whit it, but was just wondering why there wouldn't be anything similiar for european cameras.. they used pack film for speed graphic and still had grafmatics and kinematics.

Do i just have to live with single sheet holders?

[Bill_1856]

If you want to spend some money, 3.25x4.25 Bag Mags can be adapted, but I think that for all practical purposes you're stuck with individual cassettes.
Boy, do I miss film packs!

[Archphoto]

I presume that your RF folder has NO international back ?
I havn't seen anything like you want in the past 30 odd years in Europe.....

Peter

[Glenn Thoreson]

You're rather out of luck on this one. The metal single sheet holders is all that will fit your camera without extensive modification. There are 120 roll film holders to fit these but it kind of defeats the purpose. I have a couple of those. They're extremely hard to come by. Even if you decided to modify the camera, the work involved would hardly be worth it. I would suggest keeping an eye out for more of the single holders.

[Sevo]

This is probably an stupid question, but have there ever been anything like grafmatic for european style 9x12 press cameras? Or did they just shoot pack film?

Well, at least one existed, as I do own a 20 shot magazine (with counter) for Mentor Reflex cameras (which have a very unique back, though). It is very likely that at least some competitors offered similar backs for their attachment standard - but it might be very hard to locate one that fits your specific camera, as they must have been rare to start with, each manufacturer had his own slightly incompatible back (or even several as in the case of Zeiss Ikon), and most current sellers are obviously unable to identify what holders they have, so that you'll usually have to buy several holders to stumble upon one matching one.

Sevo

[monkeymon]

Thanks for the answers!

Would it be possible to post an image of this 20 shot holder? I'm just curious. I had a hunch there must be some odd 9x12 multi sheet holders made sometime, maybe rare but still.

I have gathered about 10 holders for my camera, and i'm pretty happy shooting them one by one.. but my 9x12 folder is a bit envious of the grafmatic eating speed graphic. But still, the size of the camera makes it much more usable for fast shooting. And also made me wonder, why wouldn't there be something like grafmatics made for earopean market.

20 sheet holder sound like a beast, not maybe what i'm looking for as my whole purpose for this 9x12 camera is the smaller size it offers compared to speed graphic. But i'm still a bit curious, is it a bag mag style holder?

[Bill_1856]

why wouldn't there be something like grafmatics made for earopean market.

With film packs, no other speedy system was necessary.
Film packs were far quicker than even Grafmatics are, with 12-16 shots available. The drawbacks were 1) limited range of emulscions available, 2) very thin base (often even thinner than the corresponding roll film). Probably virtually impossible to make color film flexible enough to use in film packs. You can get a good idea about all this by looking at a Polaroid (or Fuji) pack, where the negative is trashed after it transfers onto the print.
BagMags are handy, especially in the field, but not all that quick.

[Peter K]

Would it be possible to post an image of this 20 shot holder? I'm just curious. I had a hunch there must be some odd 9x12 multi sheet holders made sometime, maybe rare but still.

This is the multi sheet film fom C. Boniforti Milano/Italy. It takes 24 sheet-films 9x12cm. Dimension 16 x 10.1 x 3.6 cm. Weight 450g plus 300g films and inserts.

from "Karl Pritschow: Die photographische Kamera und ihr Zubehör" Vienna, Springer 1931

The same system was used for the very first "Rollei" camera, the "Heidoskop" for 12 stereo images on plates 6 x 13 cm.

I've used the Heidoskop but not the Boniforti-back.

Peter

[Sevo]

Would it be possible to post an image of this 20 shot holder? I'm just curious. I had a hunch there must be some odd 9x12 multi sheet holders made sometime, maybe rare but still.

20 sheet holder sound like a beast, not maybe what i'm looking for as my whole purpose for this 9x12 camera is the smaller size it offers compared to speed graphic. But i'm still a bit curious, is it a bag mag style holder?

I'll make a picture of it whenever I get around to some studio the next time. But there is not much to be seen, It is a rectangular wooden box, slightly deeper than the biggest bag mags, with the usual Mentor integrated bamboo roller blind slider, and a action almost resembling a Grafmatic (or rather, the "detective" cameras of the late 19th century, which pioneered the multi-plate magazine) - i.e. you pull/push the casing relative to the camera attachment to flip the front septum to the back and bring up the next.

Things like it are most likely listed as plate magazines, as that was what they went by in original catalogues and manuals - there never were dedicated "film holders" for the older European back standards, all film was used in plate holders and mags with a septum or sheath.

[monkeymon]

It's a shame they didn't make film holders for film only, they would have been so thin and light. If i only had the skill and machinery to make them. I really think 9x12 is superior to 4x5 in handheld photography.

If you feel like it, post a pic of your mag. This 24 shot mag is already giving me hope to find something like it, and proves there were something like this around in europe. Only if they were a bit smaller.