Photography Schools/MFA

[Richard M. Coda]

Wait, was that link supposed to demonstrate bad photography? It's not. Why does project based photography make you so sour?? Not everyone wants to shoot a series of snapshots their whole life!!

I don't recall using the word bad. I'll keep my opinion to myself but I think you already know what it is.

I never said project photography was bad either. I said that they devise a project first. My "projects" tend to "evolve" over time.

And, you're right, not everyone wants to shoot a series of snapshots their entire life. Certainly not me. I guess I'm not narcissistic enough.

[Ed Richards]

Why folks talk about money is that you can easily spend $100,000 on an elite MFA, and then you are starting from scratch. If you want to be a teacher, then that is what you have to do. (With little chance of a job at the end.) If you want to do photography, you might find that that the 100K could be spent more effectively to get into the business. I think there is a crisis in MFA education in the US, in that we have programs geared to turn out teachers in a market that is not looking for teachers. The exploding cost of the degree makes it that much harder.

[Darryl Baird]

my 2 cents,

an MFA is a means to an end -- both for teaching careers and as a fine art artist (often enough teaching is also a means to support the later). It can provide connections into a gallery scene in larger cities, to curators and collectors, other (soon to be successful?) artists, and your inner capacity to see your work in an intense critical process.

I have an MFA. It was a means to a teaching career after I'd soured on a somewhat soul-less commercial career. I was in my mid-forties, older than most of my faculty, and determined to land a job against all the odds. I looked at what was being hired in the field and tried to make sure I matched that model.

The list Kirk posted represents the schools that have reputations. I don't always like the work I see coming from those schools, but what I see is that those are very often the people who land the teaching jobs... they are well educated, can usually teach and inspire, have connections that continue to pay dividends. There are many, many good (and unknown) MFA programs in the Midwest (my region) and the West Coast too.

I think the best approach is to evaluate what you already are good at and see if that is represented in the work of grads. Most schools are highly selective and try to balance the incoming portfolios (styles and techniques) to broaden the horizons of everyone. It's a little uncommon to see all the work of a particular school to be represented by similar, derivative works. Also, foreign students are often sought out as they offer cultural diversity.

If I could do it over I'd try RIT, Arizona State (Mark Klett), maybe Mass Art (Morello), and SAIC.

If your goal is teaching, I recommend the book, The Academic Job Search Handbook

[Darryl Baird]

John T said:
"...work needs to demonstrate something about you that will spark interest in the grad committee. If your work is excellent, but similar to work that is overrepresented at the school, you might be passed over for someone who is doing work that is fresh and exciting to the faculty."

Couldn't agree more. No grad faculty wants to work with a student who doesn't already have a "voice" -- something they can work with and help to develop. They won't teach you anything. If they think you have promise, but lack some skill or experience you'll often have to take more course work, or research and perfect a process (I did polymer-gravure), before continuing on in the program.

I miss the intensity of grad school, even after 12 years. It's like the best hands-on workshop, but it last two - three years.

[jeroldharter]

I don't know anything about photography grad school. I looked on the Yale website and they estimate ~$52,000 per year in costs for the MFA program. That is for an art degree. Interestingly they don't advertise ROI or time to payback which I suspect requires a very long life. If money is no object, then spending >$100,000 to take digital pics of hot dog stands might be attractive. (I'm half joking.)

[Gordon Moat]

Another way to consider MFA programs is what you want after you complete the degree. If you want to teach, almost any MFA program will allow you to meet those qualifications, though the pay levels might not correlate well to the expenses. Another reason, which I think can be better, is the networking opportunity. While studying under a big name might get you some recognition, that will be for them, and not for you. A better way to look at this is whether you would want to stay and work near where you got that MFA. Then getting the degree is a process of building connections for after you graduate.

If you want an MFA to help you get into galleries, then be aware that the prospects for future earnings are generally dire. Gallery artists rarely do well, and in a recent PDN survey it was found that they are generally the lowest earners, even below photojournalists. Sure, there are big names like Gursky and Tillmans, but don't go into an MFA program imagining you will become like them; maybe you will, but the odds are very far against you.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography

[mrpengun]

... Deadpan used to be funny (Bob Newhart, maybe Stephen Wright)... as these MFA types have commandeered the term (or had it applied to them) it is now depressing. ...

I don't care how many people use the term deadpan--Bob Newhart and Steven Wright Will Always be funny. :-)

in a more series note (not serious enough that I've read the entire thread though... I blame the wine), is that more of a problem of "deadpan" as a genre, or as the way institutes teach deadpan and how students pick it up?

Many of the high-profile teachers at Yale produce work I find utterly boring and drab, and so do some of their more recent graduates. Yet at the same time, some students come out with work I can look at for hours. I think any sort of creative education really depends on the way the teachers and students interact.

[Brian Ellis]

I have to agree with Brian.

Yes, Yale does have an MFA program... this is what it churns out.

It's up to you... is that the kind of work you want to do?

It's always nice when someone agrees with me but just to clarify - I didn't say that Yale had a bad program or churned out uninteresting work or make any other value judgements about it. In fact I said it might have a great program for all I know. I just said I didn't think of it as one of the great photography MFA programs. Obviously I don't read U.S. News and World Report.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Richard, thanks for the link to Jen's site. I really enjoyed her self portrait series.

As far as MFA in photography goes, Emily Carr in Vancouver, Canada has a program.

[John T]

Brian,

Your use of the word "churns" has a derogatory connotation to it. It sounded like a negative value judgment to me. Yale isn't a factory. Students have to earn their degree.