Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Andrew, I was being funny! Nice to have them together.

[Fr. Mark]

Xray summary was way too big to post here. I tried to cover everything that seemed relevant that had been asked 100 times the outline went something like this:

kinds of film: blue, green, the colors refer to the design of the sensitivity of the emulsion and they were paired with intensifying screens that fluoresce in those colors because we try not to kill people with diagnostic X-rays. When printed, Blue looks more like wet plate, Green looks more like 1940s films (though, i think pan film was available long before that).
single and double sided, some vendors listed. Cost comparisons
8x10 fits in 8x10 film holder w/o cutting unlike 8x10 paper
You can cut it to any size you like if you are careful. Comes in lots of sizes not just 8x10 but even some big sizes like 14x17 and larger. Also smaller, a lot smaller, for X-rays of teeth, and scraps from cutting to 810 to 57 can be fun in small cameras but this LFPI...
Safe lights--Red LED's are fairly safe within reason. Most films don't like Orange safelights.
Exposure ratings (all over the map) but often around 100 ASA in mid day (but being ortho film, film speed changes with lighting)
Reciprocity failure characteristics
Developers and starting points: Rodinal and Pyrocat HD are common on this forum but just about any developer I'd ever heard of (and some I'd not) have been used, usually fairly diluted to tame contrast issues. NB can develop by inspection because its a red-blind film.
Don't necessarily treat Xray like lithography films, they are pretty different even if they both tend to high contrast. Xray is a lot faster on exposure. Maybe 4-5 stops faster.
It scratches easily when wet. Film hangers are a help, some people use ziplock bags or trays with glass in them. Single sided films are less of a problem. Rotary development is possible, but may require removal of the emulsion facing the tube.
Stripping emulsion: tape the negative to a piece of glass and hit it with 3-4% Sodium Hypochlorite in strong Sodium Hydroxide (better known as laundry bleach) and after some time scrub off the gelatin on the one side and pray that the valuable negative doesn't get bleach on the front under the tape. Don't ask how I know to caution this...
11x14 film holders labeled Xray follow the same dimensions as 11x14 holders for "regular" film, assuming we are talking ones that follow the standards, which a lot of ULF holders, particularly old wood ones don't.

It ran to several pages, developers and types of films taking up most of it, I think.

[Tin Can]

Thanks for posting. I suppose with have the same 3 or 5000 character limit to normal posts that we do with PM's.

Pity.

I was hoping you hit post 4000 so we could tell people go read 4000...

[Andrew O'Neill]

Oh well... it's a fantastic thread full of great information. If I find anything of interest, I book mark it.

[Corran]

Nice start. I didn't want to write it but I would be willing to edit/add to it. Fr. Mark, do you want to send the whole thing as a document to me (email) and perhaps I can help edit and such and then host on my website?

[seezee]

Just developed my first four x-ray EB/RA shots, and they came out okay. Problem is that they are scratched to hell. I knew they were fragile, but man, not this fragile. I'm not sure where I messed up. I always rigorously agitate by lightly rocking the tray. I use my fingers to switch between trays. Only other place I can imagine they were scratched was in the cutting process.

Should I wear nitrile gloves during development, and cut it over a cushioned surface instead of right on the wood art-scythe-board thing? Do you guys have any tips for keepin' 'em scratch free?

I wear nitrile gloves at all stages, both to keep my skin out of the pyro (toxic) and to avoid marks on the emulsion (it's very soft when wet & can even take fingerprints). I use a guillotine cutter (this one) & place the film directly on the cutter board, but I lay a towel underneath it so the cutoffs fall on a soft surface. I like this cutter because it holds the film in place while cutting, which also helps avoid scratches.

Some members have noted that it's possible to scratch the film while loading in the holder. I've certainly done it when removing the film from the holder.

If you're having a hard time sourcing glass for your developer tray, try a charity shop or builders salvage — you might find some window glass you can have cut to size. I use vintage enamel developer trays I find on eBay, but smooth-bottomed plastic trays are available new. Just make sure all of your trays have smooth bottoms (or glass insert): soak, developer, stop, fix, and wash. If you want to try tanks + hangers, use only the Kodak steel hangers — if you go thru this thread, you'll see numerous posts about why. Another possible method is the 'taco' method, but I haven't personally tried it and I don't remember seeing anyone else on the forum saying they have, either.

[Fr. Mark]

Corran---let me try the moderator/QTluong approach one more time when I get back to my computer. Meanwhile, thanks for the offer.

[senderoaburrido]

Sezee:

How am I actually meant to take the negatives out of the holder? I try and place them in very carefully, but when taking them out, I struggle because I have no nails. I figured that using a tool or implement might be more of a risk for scratching them than nails.

Taco method is attractive, but I feel like I'd be at even greater risk of scratching the negatives. I have awful clumsy hands.

[martinyanus]

Hi everybody!

I´m not completely new to the Forum but this is the first time I´m posting something here.
Here is my problem:
After a couple of test developments I still don´t get good uniform negatives.
There are always some streaks or marks visible on them, doesn´t matter how I rotate/agitate.
The overall tonality is very promising though, so I would not like to give up this film.

My setup is:
1. 24x30 cm Min-R 2000 Plus mammography (one-sided) film by Carestream at 50 ASA;
2. Paper tray or Jobo drum 4541 with a Durst Comot engine
3. Rodinal 1+100, 6 min. at 16 Celcius degrees;

What do I do wrong?
And, more importantly, what is the best way to develop this film without streaks?

I would really appreciate your help, guys.
Cheers,

Marcin
:-)

[seezee]

Sezee:

How am I actually meant to take the negatives out of the holder? I try and place them in very carefully, but when taking them out, I struggle because I have no nails. I figured that using a tool or implement might be more of a risk for scratching them than nails.

Taco method is attractive, but I feel like I'd be at even greater risk of scratching the negatives. I have awful clumsy hands.

I load the film with the rounded corner at the bottom of the holder and slip a fingernail under it to lift the negative. On some occasions when the nitrile gloves are just too much in the way, I use the point of a pocket knife and very gently lift. You could use tweezer or forceps, too, I suppose. The emulsion isn't as soft when dry, so if you're careful, you wont scratch it. And if you do, it's at the edge where it can be safely cropped (or ignored).

Do ensure that your hands/gloves are dry before attempting to unload.