Worth buying Schneider lenses new?

[Sizam]

Up till now I've bought my Schneider lenses new from a dealer:
90,120,210 for 4x5
210 XL for 8x10

I want to buy a 480mm (for 8x10) but I'm wondering if there are actual improvements in the optics vs lenses from the early 1990's. I'm not looking for 'massive improvements' but if anything has been done to add even that 'last little bit' of optical performance then its worth it, if they just use different materials or its to get a warranty then its not.

I know with my Canon lenses that over time they improve the optics/mechanics even if they don't release a new version but those lenses are obviously more complicated.

I'll be shooting with the intent to do high resolution scanning and huge prints, I want _detail_.

Thanks.

[Ole Tjugen]

Within the central 30° of a 480mm lens - i.e. a 480mm lens used on 8x10" - there have been no significant improvements in resolution since Steinheil invented the Aplanat in 1866. The sharpest 8x10" negative I have ever seen was shot with a Meyer Aristoplan 270mm made a century ago.

No, I don't believe there have been any significant improvements since the 1990's.

[cdholden]

I understood that wavelengths for red/green/blue don't focus in the same place on older lenses, but newer ones are getting better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apochromat says that apochromatic lenses "are designed" to do this.
Is it that "they are there" or just getting closer?

[Sizam]

Sorry Ole, thats all wrong on every level.

cdholden:
Yea, APO and Multicoating are certainly massive improvements but they're already in the lenses from the early 1990's. I'm looking at a couple that are 'APO-SYMMAR MC', as far as I can tell, mechanically they're the same.

[BarryS]

At this point, I think it rarely makes sense to buy new LF lenses. I'm sure you can find the current Apo Symmar L used, but I wouldn't hesitate buying a Symmar-S lens--a couple of generations older. Considering that the lens costs $4000 new (!), I think there are *many* less expensive alternatives that will deliver equal quality. Are you sure you want to jump from 210mm to a huge honkin' 480mm plasmat? You can pick up shorter plasmat like a 360mm for very little since they were common studio lenses and most LFers want light field equipment these days.

Edit: Don't be so quick to dismiss Ole's advice, he's got more than a few lenses in his cabinet and a lot of experience.

[Dave_B]

Sorry Ole, thats all wrong on every level.

cdholden:
Yea, APO and Multicoating are certainly massive improvements but they're already in the lenses from the early 1990's. I'm looking at a couple that are 'APO-SYMMAR MC', as far as I can tell, mechanically they're the same.

Calling Ole out on a lens knowledge slam-down may not be the most prudent thing to do. He has a pretty solid scientific background coupled with a lot of practical knowledge and experience with LF lenses. He is well-respected on this and other LF forums. You may come to regret this but the rest of us will enjoy the fight. Good luck.

p.s. I would also suggest you not pick a fight with Dan Fromm either unless you really enjoy getting your head handed to you.

[Sizam]

Unless other people want to jump on this bandwagon:

"there have been no significant improvements in resolution since Steinheil invented the Aplanat in 1866"

Can we move on?

[Rodney Polden]

Well, Sizam, Ole's original qualifying phrase, referring to: "Within the central 30° of a 480mm lens - i.e. a 480mm lens used on 8x10", may actually be the part you are skipping over that makes his comment accurate.

[Ole Tjugen]

"there have been no significant improvements in resolution since Steinheil invented the Aplanat in 1866"

... within the central 30°. There have been multiple advances in field flatness, coverage, chromatic aberrations, anti-reflection treatments and so on - but the maximum resolution is still no better than the best Aplanats.

[erie patsellis]

I'd have to agree with Ole as well, the central 30 degrees is the stickler. It is my understanding that more modern lenses actually trade resolution in the center to gain in the edges (no free lunch). If my experience with my 19" RD Apo Artar is any guide, there's likely very little improvement on-axis to be had, yes, they are that sharp.

Consider Ole and Dan the Richard K.(those of us that used to use or still use Usenet will know of whom I speak) of the forums, though if you really enjoy arguing semantics, R.K. could likely send you with your tail between your legs as well, and in such a polite way that you'll be thanking him profusely as well

btw, have you ever actually seen or held a 480mm plasmat? my 360 is huge, I can't imagine what the 480 is like.