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Thread: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    36

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    I realize that this thread is old but I came across it and decided to add my comments for the possible benefit of someone who may read it in the future. I was surprised to see so much concern and confusion about the use of HCA.

    It sounds like you may be too concerned about when and how to use HCA. The procedure does not need to be as precise as you seem to assume. There is, for example, no need to let the film sit still for one minute in HCA and there is no reason for timing the step with such precision. HCA treatment has no effect on the image at all. I simply agitate the film in HCA for about three or four minutes regardless of the process I'm using, i.e., trays, tanks, or Jobo processing. It is not a precise step that you should worry about, like the development step. All you need to do is treat the film in HCA for a sufficient amount of time to let it do it's job. You can't over-do HCA treatment and you really can't under-do it either because it is simply a step to reduce wash times. It helps break down the fixer for faster washing, that's all. It's the wash step that is most important and you should always give that sufficient time. HCA just allows you to reduce that time a bit and nothing more.

    You mentioned that you go directly from the fixer to HCA. That is not advisable. You should rinse the film after fixing and before HCA treatment. The reason is obvious; the rinse gets rid of the bulk of the fixer so the HCA can do its job easier. Also, if you are re-using your HCA, it will last longer if you rinse the film first. The principle is the same as when you process fiber-based papers. You seem to be concerned about wasting water but you will be wasting chemicals and water if you don't rinse your film after fixing it and before HCA treatment. Just a quick rinse does the job. That allows HCA to work much more efficiently and it allows you to use the HCA for far more film before discarding it.

    As for the comment by another person here who expressed concern about the HCA getting on the back of the film: He states that developer and fixer ONLY treat the front (emulsion) side of the film but he is concerned that HCA treats both sides. I am puzzled by such a comment. Does he think there is a way to treat only one side of the film with HCA? I would love to seem him do that! It's true that the developer and fixer only act on the emulsion but both sides are immersed in developer and fixer, of course. HCA acts on the fixer and there is fixer on both sides of the film although there is more soaked into the emulsion. But, in any case, there is no way to treat only one side of the film! I suspect that the person who made that comment never developed film. I had to read his comment twice because I thought I must have read it wrong the first time.

    That said, there is no need to use HCA with film at all, as someone else pointed out. Unlike fiber-based papers that become saturated with fixer deep into their fibers, film holds very little fixer and it is easily washed off. I do use HCA for film myself but I would not be concerned at all if I ran out of it and couldn't use it. I would simply extend the wash time a bit. Just as RC papers need no HCA treatment, film doesn't either. It's just a nice little optional step to reduce washing times a bit, that's all. It has no effect on the image itself. There is no reason at all to worry about precise times or letting the film sit in HCA still for one minute, etc. It's analogous to the pre-wash step you may have seen at do-it-yourself car washes. That step helps soften and loosen dirt so the wash step goes faster but it certainly isn't necessary.

    You certainly can use HCA in your Jobo tanks but, as always, it's best to rinse the film first.

    I wash my film in a fill & dump film washer for ten or fifteen minutes. All that is necessary is that you give sufficient wash times. Again, there is no need to fuss over precision. HCA is not a step to be all concerned about and to worry about precision when doing. If you are very concerned about wasting water, go ahead and do a hypo check and then wash your film for slightly longer than you hypo check indicates to give you a margin of safety. But I see little reason to go to the trouble involved. There are far more important things to be concerned about when processing film. It does, however, pay off to do hypo tests to determine wash times for fiber-based papers because a lot more water is involved.

    As you know, Jobo does not recommend using stabilzers (for color) or Photoflo in Jobo tanks or with the film on Jobo reels. I don't know about that. I know people who have done those steps in Jobo tanks for many years with no problem at all. I have done it myself and not experienced any problems at all although I generally follow Jobo's advice and I rinse the tanks and reels thoroughly if I do do the stabilizer or Photoflo step with film in Jobo tanks and/or on Jobo reels. I don't like takiing roll film off the spool to treat it in stabilizer or Photoflo because it is easily damaged when doing that. Wet film should be treated with care.

  2. #12
    ic-racer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    6,763

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    For LF film in Jobo expert and 2800 drums I use:

    Fix
    1min water wash
    1min Permawash (rotating, like the rest of the sequence)
    1min water wash
    2min water wash
    3min water wash
    Remove negatives from drum
    Individual rinse in a tray of water 15-30 seconds (to make sure no residue is on back of negative)
    Dip in tray of PhotoFlow
    Hang to dry.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    174

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    At my college, where we use the Jobo drums for 4x5, they just have us drain the fixer, then fill+rotate with fresh water for one minute, repeat 5x. They have their own test chemistry there, and can verify that this approach is archival-quality. Frankly, considering how Jobo tanks are so chemistry-efficient, I don't see all the fuss using a hypo clear when all it will save you is a couple of one-minute rinse cycles.

  4. #14

    Re: Using Hypo Clearing Agent in Jobo Expert Drum

    Jobo especifically recomends not to use estabilizers...

    http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_ana...tl-1500_09.htm
    Note 4: Stabilizer should always be used outside of the processor to avoid contaminating tanks and reels. Use a separate container for stabilizing film and remove the film from the reel before stabilizing. Stabilizer is very difficult to remove entirely from reels and tanks. If it is carried over into the next process, developing can be affected.

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