Computer help for CS3?

[poco]

I upgraded to CS3 from PS6 last summer and it's always had an issue that I'd finally like to straighten out.

The problem is that CS3 is constantly writing to my hard disc during a photo editing session and it's driving me nuts. Every Single mouse click (like clicking the cloning tool while dust busting a scan) is followed by a short burst of write to disc. Even when I open a large scan with CS3 off an external drive (typically 500 megs or more), there's the normal delay as the image loads, but then even after coming up, the internal hard disc continues to whirl away for over 3 minutes ...writing something or other. If I open the same file with my old PS6 the same image will show up and the hard disc stays quiet and will stay that way even through an extensive editing session.

Here's the tech details: I'm running XP on a windows machine with (up until this morning) 2 gigs of ram. CS3 recognizes 1719 mb as available and has 70% allocated. I have my C drive as the scratch disc which has about 70 gig free space. All my files come from an external hard drive.

Thinking a move to 4 gigs of RAM might help, I upgraded this morning. After adding the memory, controlpanel/system/general shows 3.8 gigs of ram, but neither PS6 nor CS3 recognizes the additional ram -- so what's the deal with that? How do I get it to see the new RAM?

So does anyone have any ideas? The constant writing to disc of CS3 drives me friggin' nuts and makes it totally unusable to me.

[RPNugent]

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=26946

check this thread for ways to get the PC to see 3 MB of ram

[Steven Barall]

You are right in that it is a RAM issue. The problem is that 32 bit operating systems can only see 3 gig of ram. That fourth gig is just sitting there doing nothing but that's life in a 32 bit world. The 64 bit operating systems can see much more ram so if you do want a bunch of ram you have to get a computer running 64 bit Vista or that Mac Pro desktop from Apple.

You have to consider that Photoshop needs at least four times your file size to work correctly. If you are using 500 meg files Photoshop wants 2 gig or memory. On top of that you need ram for the operating system, in your case Windows XP and that needs at least half a gig. On top of that you have other little things running on your computer at the same time like virus protection and ether net and maybe your email program is open etc...

Another big drain is Bridge so if you use Bridge to search for your photos you might want to close it after you open your image.

Pretty much all of HP's desktops these days are available with Vista 64 bit. They will take and actually use 8 gig of ram and you can drive one of those babies home for about a grand depending on the processor speed and warranty. The Mac Pro desktops units can take even much more ram than that but you pay the price.

[m332720]

You can also help things out by adding a second internal drive. Set it as your scratch disk. I have a 80 gig drive in my computer that is used only as a scratch disk. It helps things out a lot.
Your computer is using the C drive as its scratch disk that is why you are seeing so much disk activity.It is running the program off of it as well as writing to it

[poco]

Thanks, guys.

The weird thing is that if I go to Help/system in photoshop, it says:

Built in memory: 3455 mb
Free memory: 2750 mb
Memory available for photoshop: 1719 mb

So why is only 1719 available, if 2750 is free?

[Kuzano]

Thanks, guys.

The weird thing is that if I go to Help/system in photoshop, it says:

Built in memory: 3455 mb
Free memory: 2750 mb
Memory available for photoshop: 1719 mb

So why is only 1719 available, if 2750 is free?

Windows 32 bit only addresses 3 GB of RAM, even with more installed and more reported.

Photoshop may report all physical RAM, but the Windows OS cannot use it.

Constant hard drive write is a function of not enough RAM available to hold all the program files in RAM, so it is swapped back and forth to Virtual RAM Memory assigned on the hard drive, to use space on the hard drive as a substitute for the shortfall on real RAM.

IF YOU ARE MULTI-TASKING, OR HAVE SUBSTANTIAL MEMORY RESIDENT PROGRAMS, LIKE YOUR ANTIVIRUS, ETC... DETACH FROM THE INTERNET AND TURN OFF ALL PROGRAMS RUNNING, EITHER ON THE DESKTOP, OR IN THE BACKGROUND. THIS EFFECTIVELY TURNS YOUR COMPUTER INTO A DEDICATED PHOTOSHOP COMPUTER. THIS MEANS TURN OFF YOUR ANTIVIRUS AND ALL OTHER SCANNERS, BACKGROUND PROGRAMS LIKE DOWNLOADERS FOR PHOTOS THAT LOAD AUTOMATICALLY WHEN YOU HOOK UP A CAMERA OR OTHER USB DEVICE... THE LIST OF STARTUP ITEMS IS FAIRLY LARGE, BUT ALL OF THEM CAN BE TURNED OFF WITH ONE SWITCH IN MSCONFIG FOR A SESSION RUNNING ONLY PHOTOSHOP (REMEMBER TO UNPLUG THE INTERNET) AND THEN TURNED BACK ON AND REBOOT. YOUR RAM, WITH ALL BACKGROUND FUNCTIONS TURNED OFF WILL ONLY RUN THE OPERATING SYSTEM AND PHOTOSHOP IF YOU DON'T OPEN ANY OTHER PROGRAMS.

The only real fix for the RAM limit on a PC using Windows is the 64 bit Vista Edition, which introduces you to all the other shortcomings of going to 64 bit processing.

These are the short answers, and the technicalities are not addressed here. The workarounds are replete with their own issues.

The other real issue is that the vast array of hardware and software configurations for the PC platform make the solutions and workarounds inconsistent. One persons Windows PC may operate somewhat differently on any configuration, given the vast selection of hardware choices on the PC platform.

Don't read this wrong. I am not a strong advocate of Apple/Mac with the exception that until recently, the hardware choices were limited (the platform was never cloned like the PC), hence Software Programmers could more consistently write stable programs for that platform. They had only to provide hardware drivers for a limited table of hardware. Add to that a stronger committment to graphics programs over a longer period of time in the Apple camp.

Perhaps Windows 7, which Microsoft is forging ahead on, will resolve your problem. However, remember that it too will be buggy for the first year, because of the pressure to get it to consumers to replace Windows Vista, the Microsoft remake of Windows Millenia.

One should reflect on the fact that almost every widely used image editing and graphics program first started out on the Apple platform (Mac), and migrated to the PC platform as Software Publishers were finally given a GUI interface to 90% of the marketplace, instead of 8% as in the case of Apple/MAC

[poco]

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail, Kuzano.

But you'd think there must be thousands of people running CS3 on the XP OS without these problems. I just opened a tiny 3 mb file with no other programs open and every mouse click is still followed by a short micro-burst of writing to the hard disk. This can't possibly be right.

But let me ask you this, if speed isn't an issue and one is only concerned about wear and tear on the hard disc, how much abuse can it take? If every editing session results in hundreds of short write to discs, it wouldn't take a whole lot of that abuse to trash the thing, would it?

[Kuzano]

Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail, Kuzano.

But you'd think there must be thousands of people running CS3 on the XP OS without these problems. I just opened a tiny 3 mb file with no other programs open and every mouse click is still followed by a short micro-burst of writing to the hard disk. This can't possibly be right.

But let me ask you this, if speed isn't an issue and one is only concerned about wear and tear on the hard disc, how much abuse can it take? If every editing session results in hundreds of short write to discs, it wouldn't take a whole lot of that abuse to trash the thing, would it?

I would suggest that there are thousands of people running Photoshop with no clue about the Software/Hardware shortcomings. I teach computer classes and you'd be surprised at how many people have never wondered what that flickering red or amber light is all about. (Certainly no one on this forum, however)

On your first query here, if you are tapped out on RAM simply by having the hardware RAM full of Operating System and Photoshop files, then the size of your data file is irrelevant. Each mouse click can cause a call for the files from the hard drive that process the function you just enacted. These files then bump the least used Photoshop files (which aren't being used at the moment) back to the Virtual RAM space on the hard drive. The system actually tracks most recent used and least recent used Photoshop files and juggles them back and forth to the hard drive. Now if you decide to check your mail while a process is occurring the click that opens Outlook, for example, calls Outlook operating files into the fray and bumps some least used Photoshop files out of real RAM to virtual RAM.

So, yes, each mouse click will be followed by either a brief, or perhaps, a long burst of hard drive write. In fact, your data file size is only a tiny part of the equation. It's the number and mass of Operating System and Photoshop files that have the vast majority of RAM full. Consider then, the plight of the poor Vista user, who is committing a bit over a gigabyte of RAM just to have Windows Vista alone sitting there with an idle desktop. In fact the thing that clued us in to the massive RAM requirement for Vista was that the rollout on Vista was done on computers running 512 megabytes to one Gigabyte. It was well over a year before Vista computers were commonly sold with 2 and 3 Gigabytes as they are now. Vista has not really improved all that much.... the computers simply have more RAM in them.\

So, if you are maxed out on RAM, there has to be constant hard drive activity for the huge amount of file swapping going on between RAM and Virtual RAM on the hard drive.

Now, regarding the wear factor. Hard drives, for the most part are far more durable than most people imagine. In networks that run 24/7, the hard drives that constantly serve up files to the work force are lit up all the time. I've seen those hard drive run 5-6 years. Of course for a long while File Server hard drives were built a bit sturdier. For the last few years, the drives in servers are often the same as sold in home PCs.

There is one exception. Systems must be configured in matching components. A fast CPU, on a Mother Board with a fast bus speed, and a fast interface to a fast hard drive will tend to be durable. It will only tend to be fast if matched with fast RAM and as much of that as possible.

What seems to be a "fly in the ointment" has been the use of USB to connect external drives. USB is a huge bottleneck. Some suggest that should not create a dependability or wear factor on the external drive. That has not been my experience in working on systems. I have seen a few more hard drive failures on externals. Therefore, while it's a great way to store files, I suggest it is a poor way to treat the drive if you are working on an image direct from a USB drive, or using external drives as scratch disks.

I know that last part was not part of your concern, but I've seen photographers work from their USB drives. If you want to see slow.....

[Jeff Conrad]

Kuzano is absolutely right that the real solution is CS4 with Vista 64 bit and preferably at least 8 GB of RAM. But you still may be able to realize a slight improvement with what you have by using the 3GB boot switch.

Even though you're only able to use a bit less than half of the last MB of RAM, that half MB makes a big difference when you give applications more than the default 2 GB (and correspondingly reduce the RAM available to system processes). I'd recommend trying the 3GB switch with different values given via the userva switch. Start with something like /userva=3000; I use this value, and my system only reports 3326 MB built-in memory.

One caveat, though--if you're running many other applications, you may find that the 3GB switch doesn't leave the system with enough resources to run everything. Because of that, it's a good idea to keep the default entry in boot.ini and boot with the 3GB switch only when you plan to concentrate on PS (if boot.ini has more than one entry, you get a menu of choices at boot time; after a brief delay, the system boots using the first entry if no choice is made).

[Peter Mounier]

Thanks, guys.

The weird thing is that if I go to Help/system in photoshop, it says:

Built in memory: 3455 mb
Free memory: 2750 mb
Memory available for photoshop: 1719 mb

So why is only 1719 available, if 2750 is free?

Because you allocated only 70% to PS?

Peter