A Chance To "Play" With 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and 3 1/4 x 4 1/4

[lomomagix]

Greetings everyone!

First... I have practically zero experience with sheet film!

I came across an uncle who found out about my medium format cameras and offered me the chance to "play" around with some of his old view cameras if I wanted to (and of course I wanted to). It turns out that one of his old view cameras took 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and another one took 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 films!

And now my questions...

1) It seems to me that the very few vendors of film this size only have them in B/W. Is there something I should know that would stop me from cutting larger sheet film to these sizes so I can "play" with the cameras using colored and slide films as well?

2) If I make an even greater leap and decide to try developing the films myself, would it be possible to use the tanks designed for 4x5 for these small sheet films without having to do any modifications?

3) An enlarger is out of the question and I would be interested in scanning the resulting negatives. The 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 I suppose would fit in the MF holder of an Epson V500 but the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 would not. I guess I could use the HP G4050 of a friend but it would be too small for the 4x5 holder. Any nice tips on how to fabricate a film holder for that (such as what materials would be good to use)?

Thank you very much in advance and pardon me for the long post.

[Jiri Vasina]

ad 1) No, there is no inherent problem cutting large film to size. The less cuts, the better (if you could only cut one straight cut, it's best and simplest; if you have to cut more, there's higher chance something will go wrong - or you'll scratch the film).

BUT, I wouldn't recommend cutting color film, especially if you are not developing the film yourself, because who would develop the film? It will be more difficult to find a lab to develop non-standard film size (well, I mean, non-common film size, but it's the same to the labs ). I'd recommend first start with BW film and later, you can add color. (also, for both the sizes, roll film backs are available. If you insist on using color film, one good way is to use this roll film back - I use one on my Graflex 3x4 SLR).

ad 2) It depends on the tanks you have. The 2 1/4x3 1/4 size should be easier IMO, my Jobo reels accept 6.5x9cm sheet film. Also the HP CombiPlan tank accepts the 6.5x9cm sheet film readily. With 3 1/4x4 1/4, it's more likely that your tank in standard configuration won't accept the film. (I'm still in the process of adapting one of my Jobo reels)

ad 3) I made holders for my Epson V700 from "magnetic sheets" (I don't know the precise name, a plastic sheet approx. 0.7-1mm thick that is magnetic - I have found this idea somewhere on the net). Holds the film reasonably well and flat.

[Dan Fromm]

Which backs do the cameras have?

I ask because there are roll holders for both formats, and of two types. The first slips in like a sheet film holder, the second attaches to a Graflok type back. Both take 120 film, will allow you to shoot, depending on the holder, nominal 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 with either camera.

[lomomagix]

(also, for both the sizes, roll film backs are available. If you insist on using color film, one good way is to use this roll film back - I use one on my Graflex 3x4 SLR).

ad 2) It depends on the tanks you have. The 2 1/4x3 1/4 size should be easier IMO, my Jobo reels accept 6.5x9cm sheet film. Also the HP CombiPlan tank accepts the 6.5x9cm sheet film readily. With 3 1/4x4 1/4, it's more likely that your tank in standard configuration won't accept the film. (I'm still in the process of adapting one of my Jobo reels)

Thanks Jiri. What size of images come out of your roll film back for the 3x4?

Also, I was actually thinking of the rectangular tanks made for paper and sheet film, not the cylindrical tanks. Frankly, though, I've never physically seen one, only in pictures, so I have really no idea how they operate and if they would work with these sizes of films.

[lomomagix]

Which backs do the cameras have?

I ask because there are roll holders for both formats, and of two types. The first slips in like a sheet film holder, the second attaches to a Graflok type back. Both take 120 film, will allow you to shoot, depending on the holder, nominal 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 with either camera.

Thanks Dan!

For the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4, he says he has the ordinary film backs but he says he might be able to retrieve a film pack adapter (no idea what that is) he lent a friend some time ago.

For the 2 1/4 x 3 1/4, he says he has a Graflok back and may also be able to retrieve a Graphic 23 back (again, no idea what those are). Are ordinary backs available for this camera as well?

I don't think I would invest roll film backs for the cameras since as I said, I was only given the chance to indefinitely play with them but they're not mine.

[Jiri Vasina]

The size of the rollfilm image depends on the roll film holder, and can be 6x6cm, 6x7cm, 6x9cm. Depending on the type of the holder, it can be attached either to the 3 1/4x4 1/4, or 2 1/4x3 1/4 cameras. All the holders use regular 120 size film (there are some for 220 film, too).

When you use the roll film holder on the larger (3x4) camera, you loose some of the possible image size, but basically you have the choice: either have a large(r) image size - 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 and have it in BW; or you have a small(er) image - most commonly 6x9cm (that is approx. 2 1/4 x 3 1/4") and have the possibility of color.

Graphic 23 back is the one you want, for either camera - it's the roll film back that lets you get 8 pictures 6x9cm, (or approx. 2 1/4 x 3 1/4" - hence the name "23" - "2x3").

You don't want a film pack adapter. To my best knowledge, there is no current film available that you would put in it.

If you are not going to invest in the roll film backs at all, you're basically using them for BW. But what is wrong on BW?

[Dan Fromm]

As Jiri said, the film pack adapter is useless because film in packs hasn't been made for decades.

I take it that the cameras are Graphics (Speed or Crown).

Sheet film is loaded into film holders (in UK English, dark slides for ones that are one-sided and hold one sheet, double dark slides for ones that are double-sided and hold two sheets) that slip into the camera between the gate (back of the box) and focusing panel. Graflok and Graphic are different types of back of box/focusing panel. The Graflok focusing panel can easily be removed from the camera and replaced by a roll film holder, the Graphic is permanently attached so isn't very compatible with, e.g., Graphic 23 roll holders that are made to attach to Graflok backs.

If you're going to use a roll holder, play with the 2x3 camera. It is smaller and lighter than the 3x4. And roll holders for both shoot the same size image.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

If the cameras are Graphics, visit www.graflex.org and take a good look around. Read the FAQs, ...

[lomomagix]

If you are not going to invest in the roll film backs at all, you're basically using them for BW. But what is wrong on BW?

Oh no, Jiri, nothing wrong with B/W for me! In fact, I'm very much interested in using B/W film for these cameras. I just want to try both.

Another question just for the sake of trivia: would there also be a roll film back for 6x8, or are they all limited to the ones you mentioned (6x6, 6x7, 6x9)?

[lomomagix]

As Jiri said, the film pack adapter is useless because film in packs hasn't been made for decades.

I take it that the cameras are Graphics (Speed or Crown).

Sheet film is loaded into film holders (in UK English, dark slides for ones that are one-sided and hold one sheet, double dark slides for ones that are double-sided and hold two sheets) that slip into the camera between the gate (back of the box) and focusing panel. Graflok and Graphic are different types of back of box/focusing panel. The Graflok focusing panel can easily be removed from the camera and replaced by a roll film holder, the Graphic is permanently attached so isn't very compatible with, e.g., Graphic 23 roll holders that are made to attach to Graflok backs.

If you're going to use a roll holder, play with the 2x3 camera. It is smaller and lighter than the 3x4. And roll holders for both shoot the same size image.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

If the cameras are Graphics, visit www.graflex.org and take a good look around. Read the FAQs, ...

Thanks for all the info, Dan, and thanks for that nice link too.

So I take it that regarding these types of cameras, the Graflok back would be more desirable because a roll film back can be attached to it. I suppose a Graflok back can also take the regular 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 and 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 sheet film for them, right? I mean, I don't have to remove the Graflok back to use those films I guess. Hmmm, I really should be exploring that link you gave me now.

One last question, will the same Graphic 23 roll film back be compatible with both sizes of cameras (assuming they both have that Graflock back) or is there a specific one for the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 and a specific one for the 2 1/4 x 3 1/4?

[Dan Fromm]

A 2x3 back will accept a roll holder made to fit a 2x3 back and 2x3 sheet film holders.

A 3x4 back will accept a roll holder made to fit a 3x4 back and 3x4 sheet film holders.

3x4 is larger than 2x3, what fits one won't fit the other. Attachments are size-specific.