Combi Plan vs Jobo 2509N Sheet Film Reel

[michael_miller]

Im looking at starting to process my own black and white negs and was wondering the best way to do it.

I have processed truck loads of 120 and 35mm film in Patterson type tanks and was thinking that the Jobo holder would be a good option, I've heard that the Combi Plan is better for even processing and is easier to load.

Having had no experience with either I was wondering if someone could give me the low down on what they think the best system is....

[Jim Cole]

After a couple of months trying to get evenly developed B&W negs with the 2509N reels and a Jobo 2500 series tank on a roller base, I gave up and bit the bullet on a Jobo Expert tank. I now get perfect negs every time. Others may have had better luck with the reels than I did, but I always had streaking along the edges where the film slides into the reel. You may develop better skills than I did with the reels.

I don't have any experience with the Combi Plan so I can't help you there.

[gari beet]

For E6 rather than B&W but I use the Jobo 2509 with the single reel drum and have had no streaking problems, I use both a Duo Lab and a CPE.

Not tried the combi, if they made a 5x7/halfplate version I would give it a go for B&W, seems to be popular with those who have 'em.

Gari.

[Skorzen]

I used the 2509 reels for a little on a motor base and got streaks. Since then I picked up a CPP for a real good deal and have found that it is possible to get a much lower rate of rotation than my old motor base. I am thinking that the streaks may have been related to the rotation speed and that is why some people had issues and others did not.

[Ed Richards]

The Expert Drums are pretty fool proof. I use them with a changing bag and no darkroom, and get perfect negatives pretty much every time. (and when I do not, it is my fault, not the drum)

[Renato Tonelli]

I use both with good results. The Jobo I use on an AT1500 processor and when I have a lot of sheets to develop. It is cumbersome to load even with the loader; then you have to clip on those retaining "flaps?" to keep the film from coming out of the reel.
The Combi is super easy to load; one drawback is that it takes a while (15+ secs.) to fill and empty the chemicals. When I am in a real darkroom I use two Combi tanks so that I can fill them ahead of time: first with the water bath and the second with the developer.
Also check the APUG.org forum as this has been discussed at length there.

[Jiri Vasina]

Well, I use 2509N reel in 2800 print drums on UniColor roller base and have not had any uneven development so far (and I develop BW, E-6, C-41 in it).

The 2509N reel is a bit more difficult to load than CombiPlan holder, but only slightly. The processing itself is IMO easier, because with the Jobo, you can use a roller base. Unlike the CombiPlan - it's a box, has to be manually agitated.

The CombiPlan I've had was a bit leaky at the top, but I was told the cover lid can be replaced with a never, not leaky one. Contrary to the previous posters, I've had uneven development with the CombiPlan tank (and not the Jobo). As Renato noted, the filling time is much longer in the CombiPlan.

Result: IMO the CombiPlan tank is a good and perfectly usable solution. The Jobo 2509N reel in 2800 line tanks is better (and I think 2500 tanks would be the same).

[Nick_3536]

I've never had a problem getting even good negs out of a 2509N reel in a 2551 or the 2581 tank. I also use the same tanks for smaller formats.

Others seem to have endless problems. I've never seen a rhyme or reason why some of us have no problems and others nothing but problems. Maybe it's developer choice. Hell if I know.

But the 2509N is easy to use. Loading it isn't hard. Mounting the black flow plates takes awhile to learn but that's it. The tank takes a reasonable amount of chemicals when used in rotation. Are cheap.

I've got an Expert for larger formats but the 2509N works just fine for me with 4x5 and smaller so the expert sits around waiting for bigger negs.

[paulr]

The 2500 tank and reels cause a bit of turbulence at the upper and lower edges of the negs. This can cause some edge density buildup, if you're using a developer that's prone to this.

I used to have problems with streaking in clear skies when I used D-76. I switched to a developer that used phenidone instead of metol (and had a few other differences, but I forget all the details). The streaking problem vanished.

The expert drums are another solution. They're basically turbulence-free.

I've never used the Combi tank, but am at loss to explain how it could ever produce truly even development.

[Bob Salomon]

"I've never used the Combi tank, but am at loss to explain how it could ever produce truly even development."

Proper agitation is the key, and nothing works better then "vibration" action. Pick up at Wallmart one of those message units that vibrate (or substitutes). For a live view of how fast it is, take an old bottle of fixer (clear bottle), and touch it with the vibratory tool. The old fixer sediment on the bottom rises to the top of the bottle instantly.....uou sese full agitation in roughly 5 seconds (without any hand agitation). What you will see is what looks like a tornado forming inside the bottle.

Before you try vibration agitaion, first try it by shaking, rotating, and turning the bottle upside down. What you see is nothing happening (assuming full bottle), and the sediment stays suspended exactly where it was. Next, touch the bottle with some vibration and you see a storm produced.

What makes for even processing with the Combi-Plan tank is proper agitation and the proper amount of chemistry as marked on the bottom of the lid. The Combi-Plan system was designed for inversion agitation. This works because the chemistry can flow when the tank is inverted. Yes the tank must be tapped a couple of times when the film is first inserted into the tank to dislodge any airbells. But after that simply using inversion agitation gives the best results (provided that you do not use more then the recommended amount of chemistry.