Capacity of HC-110 at 1:49 when Rotary Processing

[asnapper]

With HC-110 being cheap, stable & a classic combo when used with Tri X, I intend on using HC-110 as my standard developer when rotary processing using the Jobo Expert drums with my CPP2 processor.

The development times for solution B (1:31) are too short with rotary so I will use a more dilution solution of the developer. For ease of measurement I want to use 1:49, 20ml of neat HC-110 will go into 980ml of water at 20c / 68f.

Kodak literature recommends 1.5 sheets of 10x8 film per litre of Solution E (1:47) when tray developed or 3 sheets of 10x8 in a deep tank.

I’m sure the above recommendations are conservative, so how many sheets of 10x8 are you putting through a litre of HC-110 at 1.49, when using your Jobo rotary system?

[Bruce Watson]

With HC-110 being cheap, stable & a classic combo when used with Tri X, I intend on using HC-110 as my standard developer when rotary processing using the Jobo Expert drums with my CPP2 processor.

Been there, done that.

I too thought that I would continue using HC-110 with 5x4 Tri-X when I bought my (used) Jobo CPP-2 and 3010 drum. Thing is, I couldn't control it. HC-110 is just too active a developer for continuous agitation. Even at the lowest dilution (something beyond H) I still had 5 minute development times and Zone VIII densities at 1.3+.

So I gave up on it and switched to XTOL which I use at 1:3. Works beautifully and I wouldn't give you a dime for the difference in image quality. I compared Tri-X in HC-110H and XTOL 1:3 side-by-side at 12x enlargement and what differences there were were quite minor.

What made me switch wasn't image quality, but the ability to use pull development controls (N-1 developing), and an increase in real film speed of about 2/3 a stop. I could use Tri-X at box speed with XTOL! And I will give a dime for that difference.

But give it a try if you want. But I'd just go ahead and skip testing "B" dilution and go straight to "H" because it's your best bet IMHO.

[sparq]

This page might help a bit.
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

[BradS]

Have to agree with Bruce. I love Tri-X in HC-110 (dil. D) but, in my highly unscientific tests, I have found that HC-110 is not suited to continuous agitation - at all. It just builds contrast way too fast in the Jobo. I have moved to D-23 for almost everything.

[Bruce Watson]

I’m sure the above recommendations are conservative, so how many sheets of 10x8 are you putting through a litre of HC-110 at 1.49, when using your Jobo rotary system?

Didn't answer this question when you asked it. Kodak says you need 100ml of stock solution (regardless of dilution) per 80 square inches of film to be souped. Off the top of my head (and it's been like five years, so someone please correct me if I'm memory impaired) I seem to remember that dilution H was 250ml of stock with 750ml of water to make one liter of "H" which is Jobo's suggested maximum solution volume for a 3010 tank. But like I said, it's been years, so verify this before you use it

And that's something like 1:64 from US syrup, which is different from European syrup.

[asnapper]

Didn't answer this question when you asked it. Kodak says you need 100ml of stock solution (regardless of dilution) per 80 square inches of film to be souped. Off the top of my head (and it's been like five years, so someone please correct me if I'm memory impaired) I seem to remember that dilution H was 250ml of stock with 750ml of water to make one liter of "H" which is Jobo's suggested maximum solution volume for a 3010 tank. But like I said, it's been years, so verify this before you use it

And that's something like 1:64 from US syrup, which is different from European syrup.

Bruce,

Here in Europe we get a choice of the US 1 Litre bottles of HC-110 or the smaller European 500ml bottles which I believe is a weaker concentration. I use the US bottled syrup. If I were to make up the stock solution at 1:3, I would then dilute the stock 1:7 to get B solution, which works out at 1 part of neat HC-110 & 31 parts of water. Dilution H is 1:15, giving 1 part of neat HC-110 & 63 parts of water. I think I have got that right but I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Andy

[asnapper]

Been there, done that.

I too thought that I would continue using HC-110 with 5x4 Tri-X when I bought my (used) Jobo CPP-2 and 3010 drum. Thing is, I couldn't control it. HC-110 is just too active a developer for continuous agitation. Even at the lowest dilution (something beyond H) I still had 5 minute development times and Zone VIII densities at 1.3+.

So I gave up on it and switched to XTOL which I use at 1:3. Works beautifully and I wouldn't give you a dime for the difference in image quality. I compared Tri-X in HC-110H and XTOL 1:3 side-by-side at 12x enlargement and what differences there were were quite minor.

What made me switch wasn't image quality, but the ability to use pull development controls (N-1 developing), and an increase in real film speed of about 2/3 a stop. I could use Tri-X at box speed with XTOL! And I will give a dime for that difference.

But give it a try if you want. But I'd just go ahead and skip testing "B" dilution and go straight to "H" because it's your best bet IMHO.

Bruce,

I have been delving through my archive & have found an article by John Sexton in issue 3 of the Jobo Quarterly in which he discusses his use of the Jobo expert drums & the developers & times he used back in the early 90’s. At the time he used both TMax RS developer at 1:9 and D76 at 1:1. He mentioned that the chemical composition of
D76 changed as it aged, so he made a new batch every two weeks.

I remember reading of photographers reporting of problems with the Xtol as it aged & in Kodak’s current technical sheet for Xtol they are no longer recommending using Xtol beyond 1:1, due to problems photographers were experiencing with TMax 100. The shelf life for a full bottle has been reduced from 1 year to 6 months.

Have you experienced any problems with Xtol & what times are you using for N, +1 & -1 at 1:3 for Tri X?

Andy

[Bruce Watson]

I remember reading of photographers reporting of problems with the Xtol as it aged & in Kodak’s current technical sheet for Xtol they are no longer recommending using Xtol beyond 1:1, due to problems photographers were experiencing with TMax 100. The shelf life for a full bottle has been reduced from 1 year to 6 months.

Have you experienced any problems with Xtol & what times are you using for N, +1 & -1 at 1:3 for Tri X?

I haven't had any problems with XTOL in the five years I've been using it, but I've always mixed it with steam distilled water. IIRC one of the causes of the XTOL failures of old was iron in the mix water. Undoubtedly there were other contributory causes as well. You might want to dig around in the archives here because it was discussed and discussed and discussed...

My times are pretty much worthless to anyone else. Two reasons for this. One, it turns out that my Jobo CPP-2's thermometer is off. Quite a bit. Looks like about 0.7C. So my indicated 20C was an actual 20.7C. This of course threw my times out of whack. But that's why you do your personal EI and "N" development time testing -- just to compensate for this kind of thing.

The other reason is that I was optimizing my process for scanning. So I wanted my "N" time to be about what darkroom printers would call "N-1". I never established any variants like N- or N+ times, because when scanning you don't really need them -- expose for the shadows and let the highlights fall where they may. It's not like I have to match a printing paper's characteristics with my film any more. One less thing to worry about!

The starting point for using XTOL 1:3, rotary development (I cut the rotations down to about 30 rpm), 5x4 Tri-X is about 10 minutes at 20C. You can learn more from the German XTOL datasheet, page 24, table 4. The only thing to remember about using 1:3 is to make sure you have enough stock in the tank -- about 100ml for each 10x8 film sheet equivalent. For a 3010 tank, 10 sheets of 5x4, that's 250ml of stock and 750 ml of water for 1.0 liter total, which is the maximum Jobo recommends for the 3010 tank IIRC.

[Bruce Watson]

Bruce,

Here in Europe we get a choice of the US 1 Litre bottles of HC-110 or the smaller European 500ml bottles which I believe is a weaker concentration. I use the US bottled syrup. If I were to make up the stock solution at 1:3, I would then dilute the stock 1:7 to get B solution, which works out at 1 part of neat HC-110 & 31 parts of water. Dilution H is 1:15, giving 1 part of neat HC-110 & 63 parts of water. I think I have got that right but I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Andy

Yes. 1:63. I was close at least