Stinehour Press Announces End of Operations

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

Even $30K for 1000 copies of an 80-page book is impractical or insane. Supreme quality is great but those numbers would never work for anyone trying to simply break even, unless they were a celebrity "top ten" art world star whose famous signature might allow the books to be sold at a proportionately ridiculous mark-up.

I suppose if you go into thinking you're going to blow $20K on it, then it is just vanity.

I bet the Chinese prices are under $12K.

I guess some people just don't care about supporting what China does.

[PViapiano]

The fact is that the US enjoys a high standard of living due to so many products being produced in China and other countries that have labor working under almost slave conditions. Many Chinese workers live in dormitories furnished by their employers; it's unimaginable.

As soon as the Chinese start getting more prosperous and a middle-class starts emerging, the benefits of low-price manufacture will no longer be experienced in the US and elsewhere; and because wages in the US rarely keep up with even the cost-of-living, we could find ourselves in dire economic consequences, the likes of which this country has not seen in its history.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

The fact is that the US enjoys a high standard of living due to so many products being produced in China and other countries that have labor working under almost slave conditions. Many Chinese workers live in dormitories furnished by their employers; it's unimaginable.

As soon as the Chinese start getting more prosperous and a middle-class starts emerging, the benefits of low-price manufacture will no longer be experienced in the US and elsewhere; and because wages in the US rarely keep up with even the cost-of-living, we could find ourselves in dire economic consequences, the likes of which this country has not seen in its history.

The Chinese will never have a middle class until they ditch communism and accept some form of capitalism. When that happens, manufacturing jobs in America will go to India.

[QT Luong]

Sorry about being OT, but some of the misconceptions were just too eggregious to let them stand. China has partly embraced capitalism more than a decade ago. More than 2/3 of the GDP comes from the private sector. The country has a growing middle class who enjoys luxuries such as large format cameras, and lives in conditions that compare favorably to those found in the US. The dismal working conditions are often a byproduct of raw capitalism rather than communism.

[Greg Lockrey]

The dismal working conditions are often a byproduct of raw capitalism rather than communism.

The Nike employees in China sure didn't have very favorable comments to say about their working conditions.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

Human rights in China are basically non-existent. I do my best to boycott as many goods as I can from China, but unfortunately you can't avoid it today. I'm sure my logitech mouse was made in China, as well as my modem and router along with my phone. There are simple things in which we cannot avoid that are made from China. A book, however; is not a simple thing and if one wants a good quality book AND cannot spend a great deal of money, up until now China was always the answer. Many well-known photographers, including Michael Kenna have had their books printed in China before. Many American book publishers print in China. It is my hope that I can sway one or two of them to come back to the USA.

[Louie Powell]

Anyone who has visited China in the last 10 years knows that the political rhetoric of the 1950's about "Communist China" simply doesn't apply anymore.

Yes, there are human rights issues in China. There are human rights issues in the US. But that doesn't take away from the fact that there is an expanding (and thriving) middle class.

But back to the topic of Stinehour Press - that is a sad situation, but one that we see over and over again. But it was kind of inevitable. Small, family-owned business that was proud of its product, but may not have had the vision to see beyond the life span of the owners. Sold to an international conglomerate who likely viewed it as a cash cow. The conglomerate recognized that it was at best a niche market that would never grow, and decided to abandon the business. The operating managers scraped together enough to buy the business, and attempted to keep it going. But by then, the investment that would have been required to make it a truly sustainable business was beyond what they could pull together.

[Stephen Collector]

I had the good fortune to have Stinehour Press publish my book, Law of the Range;
Portraits of Old-Time Brand Inspectors. This was a wonderful printer who did a
wonderful job with my prints. They will be sadly missed.

[bvstaples]

Even $30K for 1000 copies of an 80-page book is impractical or insane. Supreme quality is great but those numbers would never work for anyone trying to simply break even, unless they were a celebrity "top ten" art world star whose famous signature might allow the books to be sold at a proportionately ridiculous mark-up.

I suppose if you go into thinking you're going to blow $20K on it, then it is just vanity.

I bet the Chinese prices are under $12K.

From a publishing perspective, $30K for 1,000 books is outrageous. You would have to sell them for $180 each just to cover costs, overhead, and other expenses, and around $300 each if you wanted to profit for them, and then that's based on selling out the run. Selling 1,000 copies of a $300 book in this day's economy is a real stretch. Even at the Chinese prices, you're looking at selling for around $75 just to break even.

The newest wave of on-demand books will change the way we produce them, though I don't think quality levels will be up to high-end offset for many many years.

[David Spivak-Focus Magazine]

From a publishing perspective, $30K for 1,000 books is outrageous. You would have to sell them for $180 each just to cover costs, overhead, and other expenses, and around $300 each if you wanted to profit for them, and then that's based on selling out the run. Selling 1,000 copies of a $300 book in this day's economy is a real stretch. Even at the Chinese prices, you're looking at selling for around $75 just to break even.

The newest wave of on-demand books will change the way we produce them, though I don't think quality levels will be up to high-end offset for many many years.

On-demand books don't produce anywhere near the quality that sheet-fed printing does and while it's nice to have a few books here and there, if you start racking up quantities, it's going to get pricey.

For a book size of about 10 x 8, 96 pages for 1000 copies on Blurb, it costs $33,560 assuming that when you get into quantities over 500 you get a 20% discount.

I can get a book very close to 10 x 8 (9 5/8 x 8 5/8), 96 pages, add quad-tone for every single image, have much better paper and overall printing quantity and have it down for $13,000 less.

While I agree that not everyone needs 1000 copies, there are several photographers who do. These days distributors will buy 500 copies from you, leaving you with 500 copies. Say you want to advertise and promote your book, budget 400 copies for that and 100 copies for yourself to give to friends and family and to use as a promotional tool to sell your photography.

Everything I've learned about the book publishing world and believe me, I'm still learning, is that the book is used as a vehicle to move inventory, i.e. your photography. If your photography is priced correctly, you can recoup the money you spent on the book and thensome.

If you only need 50-100 books, blurb and lulu is perfect for you. If you want to create a book to try and have it sold on newsstands, then commercial printing with an American printer is the way to go.