model release

[Clay Turtle]

Interesting to learn about copyrights which brings up another issue . . model releases? When a movie company hires extras, do they need model release or is the act of being in the film implying permission having been given? Which brings up the point with still photography as in the case mention about an artist (graffiti) as the artist whether an actor or painter performs publicly, would this not be a form consent? Which brings one to taking a photo in a public setting, you take a shot of a cafe in Europe or a soccer match in central America or north , the shot will probably include spectators (extras)?

[Asher Kelman]

Clay,

It's pretty simple, one covers oneself! Movie makers always get consent. If a restaurant is used in a low budget movie, a notice will be posted to show people what is going on so they don't have to participate. Full budget movies use extras, pay them and have full releases. One is not going to risk an eighty million dollar move to do otherwise.

Always get a model release of anyone recognizable, except in the USA for art or breaking news. In the street you may be allowed to photograph without permission of any sort and show in a gallery and charge for it. You can post for news. However releases go far beyond that. If the image makes money then people will go after it.

Each country has different expectations for privacy.

The problem is that the subject of your image might be put in a magazine where they discuss infidelity, for example or abortion or anti religious rhetoric which the photographed subject, his/her work or building might be libelled per quod, meaning that the association of your picture in the context of the slimey article, hurts the plaintiff's reputation or ability to earn money.

So whenever you take a picture, it's wise to pay people and have them sign consent including that the use of the images in contexts that may be unfavorable. If your images do not have these consents, you may well have devalued your own work as there is a reluctance to use such images, unless for news.

Asher

[Doug Dolde]

Clay Turtle? Come on that can't be your real name !

[Clay Turtle]

Clay Turtle? Come on that can't be your real name !

Funny thing, I was asked the same question yesterday so I will give you the same answer today. I was asked is that my given name so I said "yes, I was given that name by Native Americans, so yes it is my given name.
As I had been given that name by S.N.A, it was later comfirmed by a "Naming Ceremony" by N.N.A.
PS If this does not satisfy you, then look at it from my point of view . . . who gave you, your name? Doesn't it reflect their will (wants & desires) but my name reflects the aspects that others saw in me (my spirit or soul aspects).
So your name doesn't really say anything about who you are while mine states more about who I am?

[Asher Kelman]

Funny thing, I was asked the same question yesterday so I will give you the same answer today. I was asked is that my given name so I said "yes, I was given that name by Native Americans, so yes it is my given name.
As I had been given that name by S.N.A, it was later comfirmed by a "Naming Ceremony" by N.N.A.
PS If this does not satisfy you, then look at it from my point of view . . . who gave you, your name? Doesn't it reflect their will (wants & desires) but my name reflects the aspects that others saw in me (my spirit or soul aspects).
So your name doesn't really say anything about who you are while mine states more about who I am?

That's wonderful, but in a way, it's Obama-speak, an appeal to the goodwill of man. We have that when we go up the impressive stone steps of a court room and pass beneath the scales of justice. It's a prayer we have. The reality is that justice, like prayers, is not always delivered.

So while from my heart and inner values I love your name and stance, from a practical standpoint, that falls short in a professional forum where commerce takes place and advice is given that costs a lot to implement. Here, the name should be fully open to withstand scrutiny. Even a pious priest calling himself "Good Shephard" is therefore suspect, not because we're mean. It's just being practical! Of course, you are named by some people Clay turtle, and that does not, in itself, degrade the forum. However I'd ask, can we look up a college, business address or store with that name and know your feedback?

So while I love the story and it touches the best in me, on a practical level, it puts a small hole in the boat we all sail in together.

If we all did that, the boat would go nowhere.

Just my $0.02!

Asher

[Clay Turtle]

Of course, you are named by some people Clay Turtle, and that does not, in itself, degrade the forum. However I'd ask, can we look up a college, business address or store with that name and know your feedback?

Hmm . . . not sure what is being said but to paraphrase a close friend of mine "I am one of those non-person" So as I live on the fringe of society at best, no I am afraid that you would not find me listed there. The name Clay comes from SNA inability to pronounce my name so as I am like the dirt (clay) that they could say & which I accepted, from the NNA comes the Turtle as NA is called Turtle Island & is as common name as Jones or Smith in that respect.

[rwyoung]

OK, at the risk of shoving this thread sliding further down the slippery slope of "off topic", Clay I have a quick question about the abbreviations.

NA = Native American?
NNA = ?
SNA = ?

I scanned back to look at your post again but I didn't get enough context clues to figure them out.

Just curious. As an engineer I deal with TLAs (Three Letter Abbreviations, interned at NASA years and years ago and they had great thick TLA dictionaries printed, seriously) all day, some of which have different meanings depending on context.

Thanks in advance for satisfying my lexical curiosity.

[Clay Turtle]

OK, at the risk of shoving this thread sliding further down the slippery slope of "off topic", Clay I have a quick question about the abbreviations.

NA = Native American?
NNA = ?
SNA = ?

I scanned back to look at your post again but I didn't get enough context clues to figure them out.

NA = Native American
NNA = Northern Native American (North America)
SNA = Southern Native American (South America)

[Marko]

So while from my heart and inner values I love your name and stance, from a practical standpoint, that falls short in a professional forum where commerce takes place and advice is given that costs a lot to implement. Here, the name should be fully open to withstand scrutiny. Even a pious priest calling himself "Good Shephard" is therefore suspect, not because we're mean. It's just being practical! Of course, you are named by some people Clay turtle, and that does not, in itself, degrade the forum. However I'd ask, can we look up a college, business address or store with that name and know your feedback?

The topic of public names has been discussed many times on this board and this is one of the most frequent and very logical positions.

However, not all of us here are professionals. Some of us are strictly enthusiasts, amateurs if you will, in the original meaning of the word. We do not earn for our living doing photography, we only make our lives more interesting and more relaxed with it. Which also means that, with rare exceptions, we do earn our living working in often totally unrelated fields.

The Web is a Global Village in the true sense of the word. Once posted, everything is accessible to everybody, everywhere and at any time. Even years after the fact. Which is not a bad thing per se, but many of us would prefer to keep their professional lives separate from their leisure activities. While I do want and even encourage my clients to look up the examples of my work online, I do not necessarily want them to know about my hobbies.

And that is one of the reasons I decided to post under a first name that may or may not be a pseudonym. What difference does it make anyway? A name is just a name, a person can legally change the name, as many immigrants to this country routinely do (often for no other reason than to make it pronounceable for the natives ) and still remain the same (wo)man as before, with all the wonderful and reprehensible traits they've always had.

I will gladly introduce myself to those who need and want to know me personally. But I don't want to have my name plastered publicly on a specialized discussion forum with no control over who can see it, when and under which context. I prefer to think of it as prudent rather than suspicious behaviour.

[otzi]

To this end I have to agree. A mokum of privacy is not a bad thing. I use my real name on any private mails to members linking to the tag. Otzi, as most will know is an elderly chap housed at government expense in a nice clean and modern air conditioned suite. Due to his frail and aging frame he no longer roams the hills as he once did. His accommodation is in close proximity to a small village that looks like the stone and iron age. I am sure he is comforted as he looks out his windows, the modern dress codes of today must surly be a wonderment to him.

IT was in reverence to this man that I took up his name on my mail address as I needed to quickly pick something and there it was on my mouse mat!