Professional lab scanning issues

[RJ-]

Happy Christmas and New Year to the forum.

This isn't an area of strength for me so I'm looking for any help on an issue with my pro lab.

One of the images, taken on a Silvestri 6x12cm Fuji Velvia slide shows some scanning artifact. It appears as three horizontal banding lines - perfectly parallel.
The pro lab use an Imacon Flextight scanner and over the past few years, they've been fine for doing magazine repro quality scans.

The chrome is perfectly flawless although I did not lupe it in time before sending it onto my client. I'm not sure that film scratching could explain these bands due to the perfect spacing of the bands which are substantially thick.

Thank you.

[Ben Hopson]

RJ, The banding problem is very likely caused by the scanner. I have had similar issues with Imacon scans. I believe I saw discussions on the banding issue on the Yahoo Imacon Scanner group. If you search there you may find some answers to the problem.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imaconusers/

Ben

[IanMazursky]

Hi RJ,

I dont have much experience with the Imacons but from the screen shot, it looks to me like calibration lines.
There may be a scratch or dirt in the calibration area of the scanner.
This is very common with flatbed CCD scanners. The Imacons are basically high end flatbeds with a different type of light path.
While they are superior to traditional flatbeds, they can suffer the same types of issues.
i.e. Calibration lines, CCD bloom and dead pixels on the CCD.

Depending on the final size needed, you should have it drum scanned.
You will get a much better scan in the end.
But whatever the problem was, the lab should definitely credit you for the scan.
It is unusable. Also ask why they gave it to you with that obvious flaw and didn't bother to even mention it.

[Ted Harris]

Almost certainly something in the calibration area. They should be able to clean it easily.

As mentioned, Imacons will do a better job than consumer scanners but aren't true high end scanners. Ian is right, a high end scan, either from a drum scanner or a high end flatbed is what you need .... also remember that the scanner operator is as important or more important that the machine.

[RJ-]

Sincere thanks for confirming the source of the problem and for all the help. I was wondering whether the banding was due to my monitor or Mac/Windows incompatibility issues.

Having checked the scan at full resolution, in addition to the banding issues, there are large areas of scanned noise with unremoved dust and debris.

The quality of this scan seems highly atypical for the lab. Not quite sure what to say to the lab, particularly since I failed to check the scans before leaving.

Many thanks.

[IanMazursky]

Hi RJ,

There should be no compatibility issues.
Even if there where, the defect you have showed us would not fall under compatibility.

The dust depends on what you have paid for. If its a full service with spotting and scratch removal, show them and tell them its unacceptable.
If your not paying extra for that service then you are getting raw scans.

I would go to the lab and ask for the lab manager.
Bring the disc and the film with you and show him what you have shown us.
Ask them to redo the scan or refund you the money you had paid.
If they wont do either and you paid by credit card, dispute the charge.
Lab managers are there to find the problem and fix it.

Just remember, you are the client and you can always take your business elsewhere.
The way the market is today, labs dont want to loose any clients...Not one!

[Ben Chase]

Almost certainly something in the calibration area. They should be able to clean it easily.

As mentioned, Imacons will do a better job than consumer scanners but aren't true high end scanners. Ian is right, a high end scan, either from a drum scanner or a high end flatbed is what you need .... also remember that the scanner operator is as important or more important that the machine.

Ted's last comment pretty much sums it up when it comes to getting quality scans. $70,000 scanner + inexperienced operator = crappy scan.

I've had WCI scan my stuff on both a Creo and a Tango, and I was very happy with both. A good scanning outfit whether it's one of the guys on here doing it for you, or a full-time scan/print shop like WCI will offer to rescan or inspect their work to make sure you're getting the most out of your film possible. With what high-end scans cost these days, you should expect a lot.

Ben C

[RJ-]

Thank you for your thoughts.

Ian - the scan is a pro scan with scratch and dust removal and 24 hour turnaround. There are few alternative pro' labs in the area and I have tried the alternative choices, who unfortunately consistently failed to produce work on time. The lab have not produced anything like this in 5 years: our relationship is based on trust, and I often don't check my work up to a week after collecting from the lab.

This is the same scanned image (downsized only):

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...3949994&size=o

A friend recommended I try viewing it as an attachment after a full size ftp file was sent across. The banding issue (but not the failed dust artifact) disappears when the image is filtered through as an attachment, or perhaps compressed? as a jpeg.

The banding pattern is always present on the raw TIFF and .jpeg scans on the lab disc, however seem to disappear once the file is sent across the internet?

Ben - thanks for the useful hints too. The mind-numbing ache which a scan operator must endure, scan after scan of lurid colour images, must be more than the mind can bear...sometimes.


Kind regards,

RJ

[jetcode]

Ted's last comment pretty much sums it up when it comes to getting quality scans. $70,000 scanner + inexperienced operator = crappy scan.

I've had WCI scan my stuff on both a Creo and a Tango, and I was very happy with both. A good scanning outfit whether it's one of the guys on here doing it for you, or a full-time scan/print shop like WCI will offer to rescan or inspect their work to make sure you're getting the most out of your film possible. With what high-end scans cost these days, you should expect a lot.

Ben C

Again we want to hold the operator as some secret power who has the ability to make or break our scan, the fact is simple, unless the film is in bad condition it's pretty hard to mess up a scan on high end equipment for anyone with half a brain on the subject.

It's all the same controls - yes experience matters but it is not impossible to gain either.

[IanMazursky]

Joe,
I have to respectfully disagree with your comment about scanner operators.
Drum scanning is an art as much as a science.
Operators come from 2 camps.
The first is pre press. If you are expecting great scans that are 400mb+ and clean then an operator from pre press camp wont be the best one to scan the image.
The pre press industry has been a "get it done fast" & "get it done 10 minutes ago" approach to scanning. I have many friends who have worked as drum scanner operators in large and small pre press companies. They know almost nothing about scanning negatives.
They dont really keep things spotless. This has to do with the reproduction ratio. When you are only enlarging 2-4x you can afford alittle clean up. After the collapse of the pre press industry, many of these guys have ended up in photo labs or service bureaus. I have seen many a scan from guys who need retraining.

The second camp is the fine art or photographer. They take more time and if your lucky, treat the film as if it where there own.
Thats how I work and how my guys work. I treat it as a passion. Some do not.

Btw, the controls are different for every scanner. They are also different between software versions. Color management is also different. Some choose to profile some dont. Some cant.

It can be a hit or miss game but my recommendation is just to ask them how they intend to scan.