Tachihara vs.Toyo??

[Clint Hill]

Well, I'm finally beginning my journey into 4x5 LF and I'm very excited! I've been shooting 35mm for about six years now and feel I'm ready to start using my dream format. I shoot only landscape, so I'm looking for a good landscape setup. I've narrowed it down to the Tachihara and the Toyo 45AX or 45CF but am open to others as well. Anyone have any input on the pros and cons to either of these cameras?
Thank you all for your time.

[Brian Ellis]

Eliminating the Toyo CF would be easy for me. It doesn't have back movements and I consider back tilt, and to a lesser extent back swing, to be very important. One of the most common movements you'll find, even in landscape photography, is aiming the camera up to include something like the tops of trees in the photograph, then tilting the back forward to eliminate convergance of vertical lines. With no back movements you can't do that so I wouldn't buy the CF for that reason alone regardless of its other qualities.

I've owned two Tachiharas but no Toyos though I've played around with a couple Toyo AXs. Both cameras have about the same length bellows, just shy of 13 inches I believe. The Tachihara is about two pounds lighter and costs a lot less than a Toyo AX, especially new. Neither accepts a bag bellows. The Tachihara has a very flexible bellows that will alllow you to use a lens as short as 65mm, I don't know how the AX compares in this respect. The Toyo has front shift, the Tachihara doesn't, but I've never found shift to be particularly important, I just move the tripod a little.

However, Toyos are metal cameras while the Tachihara is wood and a good metal camera always beats wood when it comes to things like precision, solid feel, smoothness of operation, etc. If weight and price aren't considerations I think I'd go for the Toyo much as I like the Tachihara. I think the Toyo AX is just an all-around more solid, better made camera. But if price or weight are considerations then I'd go for the Tachihara, it's a perfectly fine camera and will serve you well, especially for landscape photography. And at a cost of $595 it's hard to beat.

I'm sure others will mention a Shen Hao. That would be a fine choice too. I happen to prefer the Tachihara because it weighs two pounds less and the extra movements the Shen Hao has aren't important to me but it's a good camera and some people prefer it to the Tachihara.

[Darryl Baird]

First, I've owned a Tachi, but not a Toyo. I always thought the Toyo AF/AX were desirable models, but out of my price range since I no longer use a camera to produce income...when I did I owned a Linhof Technika.

The only thing lacking with the Tachi was an international/graflok style of back, because I always liked being able to use roll film holders (still do.)

I recently sold the Tachi and bought an old Wista 45 (metal) for a song and have all the features and more I need in a much heavier package. If I was backpacking or hiking I would have kept the Tachi, but my work allows me to use a bicycle or car for 90% of my shots.

[kev curry]

Being new to LF and having only ever used the Tachihara, I cant give an informed opinion. But that said the tachi is a lovely camera, being well built, with plenty of movements and very light weight. I do mainly landscapes myself and find it very easy to set up and take down not to mention carry, which I find very important. It will also accept a range of lenses from 65mm-300mm - Nikkon M 300.
The camera features in 'USING THE VIEW CAMERA' by Steve Simmons and I believe it gets a recommendation by John Sexton. The more time I spend with the tachi the more I enjoy it....I don't think you could go wrong.

[Clint Hill]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your wonderful information. This really helps to discuss with photographers who actually use the equipment instead of reading random reviews and the cameras technical specifications. The more I read about the 45AX, the more I like it. But I'm also really liking the Tachi as well. However, as Brian mentioned about if weight and price are a factor, that might rule the AX out. Yes, price and weight are a factor. I will be hiking with my equipment a lot. I will be backpacking some as well, especially when I'm up in Alaska. Now, I'm only 33 and still have a strong back from all my years of training while I was a competition rock climber...I'm too old to compete now, those young light kids are too good ...but saving weight is always a good thing especially on long hikes. As far as price goes, I would always like to save money when I can. My only wonder is if the Tachi would render the same "quality" of photos as the AX? Being that the AX is a more heavier and solid camera. Will the photos be sharp enough? If it's a little windy, will I have to wait for the wind to stop becaus the Tachi is a little too flimsy? Saving weight and money are always a good thing. However, if it's at the expense of "quality" photos then I'm fine with spending the extra money and having the extra weight. Also, by "quality photos", I mean photos that I can sell in my gallery. My photos are a source of income and I would like to continue that with my journey into LF.
The amount of money I would like to invest right now for a camera is $1600 or less. (emphasis on the less). So that is why these models are of such interest to me.
Darryl, I would also love to own and use a Linhof Technika. Right now, my budget just doesn't warrant that type of camera. Hopefully though, in the next few years it will
Thanks again for your info!

[Mark Stahlke]

My only wonder is if the Tachi would render the same "quality" of photos as the AX

The quality of photos with either of these cameras will only be limited by the quality of the photographer. I, for example, can make low quality photos with any camera.

Cheers,
Mark

[Nick_3536]

As far as price goes, I would always like to save money when I can.

Then consider any of the used cameras out there. Put your money into lenses and a good tripod. It's a lot harder to tell the difference between a photo taken with a $100 camera then you'd think.

The other point is if this is your first large format camera odds are you'll find what ever you buy to not fit you some how. You'll want something different. Lighter? Maybe something that goes wider? Longer? Different format? Who knows. But I bet if we took a poll few of us would say our first camera filled all our needs. It just takes some time to understand those needs.

[ljb0904]

Clint, buy and use the Tachi (or Osaka, it's the same camera). I love those cameras, they're light and very usable. I use a 75mm on a recessed board to be able to use some movements and I use the cable release to change the aperture when I need to. Longest lens I use is a 400T and it handles that well as well. If you need more extension, get yourself an extension board. If you break it, you can still afford another one. I find it to be much more rigid than the shen-hao (my opinion only).

The camera will not be the cause of bad pictures. If you're worried about wind, anchor your backpack to the bottom of the tripod, that will hold it steady.

All that said, a metal camera will feel more precise, but for just starting out, get the tachi and learn to use the camera (and save money for the costs of selling pictures).

good luck!

[Ted Harris]

Clint,

I own and use a Toyo AII (the same as the AX with a revolving back) almsot daily and have used a Tachihara. You are comparing apples to oranges. Theya re both 4x5 field cameras but the similarity ends there. Brian did an excellent job of spelling out the differences. The Toyo feels more precise and, IMO, is easier to operate while you are focusing, it also sets up faster than the Tachihara. I find the Toyo's controls a lot easier to use than those on the Tachi. bu tthat doesn't meant that those on the Tachi. area a PITA, they aren't. You can use a Toyo with lenses down to 75mm with a flat board (at least I do).

You will save weight and money with the Tachihara. If you are rough on your equipment (I am) then the Toyo may be the better answer because it will take lots of abuse. Both are about the same size and form factor when folded. Both will get the job done. Remember that there is no complex technology in any large format camera and as long as they are built 'square' any is capable of producing fine images; the photographer is much more important.

It really is a case of you get what you pay for interms of the strength of the materials, the quality of the finish, etc.

[Brian Ellis]

I don't think either camera is going to have a significant effect on the technical quality of your photographs (the lens is more important there) and none at all on their aesthetic qualities. The Toyo might provide a little more stability in wind but one of the main problems with wind is the bellows buffeting and camera weight has no effect on that. And you'll have to wait for wind to stop because of foliage moving around at least as often as you'll have to wait because your camera is too light. Also, to the extent wind is a problem there are ways around that other than by using a heavy camera (e.g. an umbrella). Since weight and price are clearly major considerations for you it seems to me the Tachihara is the better choice even though in the abstract the Toyo is probably a "better" camera.