Publishing a book cooperatively

[cyrus]

See, it can be done! I would personally love if it was a hi-quality book - but I am not familiar with the financial aspects of self-publishing (and I certainly don't expect a profit -my personal goal is only to show that film is alive and well, others can have their own reasons for participating) However, I am certain that there are people here who are FAmiliar with the costs or can investiage it. The basics are easy I guess: figure out the total cost, divide it by the number of contributors. If we manage to get the required sum together, fantastic - we'll go from there. If not, then everyone just gets their money back and no harm done. (maybe we can all raise some money by selling all that junk we all have stored away - I know I have an extra enlarger sitting here that I would be happy to get rid of if motivated enough...)

As I understand it, the cost per volume drops significantly after a certain number of volume. We could sell those extras or give them as gifts. I guess it is too late to get this done in time for Xmas though . . .too bad, the books could make great gifts.

Anyway as far as editing goes: I suggest that everyone who contributes their best work (and $) gets in. The only question then is the order of the photos (which can simply be alphabetical or random or selected by a trusted editor), and side issues such as typeface etc. I don't know anything about this stuff so I am happy to leave it to a volunteer editor or committee to determine. Maybe we can all vote for the cover photo too. Anyway no point getting bogged down in minor details - keep eyes on the prize of getting a book out there. We''ll fix any really big problems in the second edition!

[Blueberrydesk]

I think it all depends on how complex we want to make things; I'm no lawyer but it seems to be that once it's determined how many (and who) contributors there will be, some kind of escrow account could be set up for everyone to deposit into; whether a partnership would have to be formed or not is beyond me (actually, all that stuff would be beyond me.)

I don't see any horrible hang-ups though. I mean, between all of us here we have to have access to the resources to make it happen. I guess it really just depends upon how inclined people are to do this, but cyrus, I absolutely love the idea of doing a photobook dedicated to film. I definitely think that the title should reflect the contents.

I'm gonna have to get the 8x10 out and start shooting. All this talk about photo books is making me antsy.

[Frank Petronio]

well you could probably do 1000 160-page 9x12 4/4 w varnish case bound books with a good sheetfed printer for $10,000 or so. Figure 70 photographers per two-page spread -- which avoids so many of the sequencing issues of mixing photographers side by side and allows someone to print a huge 12x18 or a combination of smaller images.

So $150 sounds about right. But I think you structure it as a pay as you go operation, pay for the actual out of pocket expenses, and don't shoot the designer/editor/publisher if it goes over 10%. The whole idea is to avoid chickenshit squabbles...

Also, you prequalify that the repro will disappoint... someone or everyone. Photographers are lousy clients in this regard, they expect the moon way beyond the physical limitations of offset.

QT does the forward or intro or at least gets highlighted and a free ride ;-)

[r.e.]

As I understand it, the cost per volume drops significantly after a certain number of volume.

Not with Lulu and Blurb. As I understand it, with them the cost per unit is constant and there is no minimum volume. Because a lot of people who self-publish don't want to commit to a minimum press run, it is one of their selling points. Also, from a design point of view, you are constrained by their templates (although perhaps it is possible to get them to print to your own design). Relative to quality design, Lulu and Blurb do easy and quick, which I suppose has its virtues.

If you want quality, don't underestimate how much work is involved. I just finished a presentation for a book, text and photographs, that includes a sample chapter fully laid out. I thought that the design and printing would take a week. It was more like several weeks. And there are reasons why typographers and graphic designers exist - apart from making it possible to distribute the workload, they can make a huge difference to a book's appearance. They are worth every cent that they cost. I don't at all mean to be discouraging, just realistic.

If this is all going to be done digitally, and without bringing in a designer, somebody may as well start learning the Adobe programme called InDesign. Unless Lulu is doing the printing, using one of their templates, it is indispensable.

[Henry Ambrose]

Frank is mostly on target.
I've been involved with something like what he writes. It can work. I'd skip the "combination of smaller images" part. It'll be too much like another commercial portfolio book. (a collection of ads). Either one or two photos per photographer in a spread.

[cyrus]

I think it all depends on how complex we want to make things; I'm no lawyer but it seems to be that once it's determined how many (and who) contributors there will be, some kind of escrow account could be set up for everyone to deposit into; whether a partnership would have to be formed or not is beyond me (actually, all that stuff would be beyond me.)

Oh legally we can make this quite complex - set up a offshore tax exempt trust? But I don't think it is necessary. We just need one person to hold onto the cash and pay the printing costs. She can set up a paypal account to receive the money, so we will all have records of our contributions. With the internet, it is easy to keep things transparent.

[cyrus]

So, lets all start talking to printers and get estimates!

[r.e.]

Also, you prequalify that the repro will disappoint... someone or everyone.

If the approach is to do a book that is "good enough", people will indeed be disappointed. If the approach is to bite the bullet financially, and bring in qualified, talented people to do the work, people will be blown away.

For the proposal that I just finished, we went the latter route. The result is that our little presenation is now in the hands of an agent who has five New York Times bestsellers, a National Book Award and a highly successful feature film to his credit. In no small measure, we owe that to the people we hired to deal with design and printing.

It's a choice.

[Greg Lockrey]

How about those people that put "Lenswork" together? Will they do non-magazine work? I've always been impressed with their printing quality and stock.

[r.e.]

So, lets all start talking to printers and get estimates!

If this is going to be a group of photographers doing this all by themselves, without knowing anything about the book business, it might be easier to just hire View Camera to do it on a turn key basis.

Ahh, I see that Greg just had the same thought. Yes, or Lenswork.