Whole Plate (6.5X8.5) vs. larger Sized Cameras (8X10 and larger)

[Jim Galli]

"Whole plate" simply refers to how the 6.5x8.5-inch format originated. That was the size of some glass plates early in the last century. Adapters followed to permit use of sheet film in those plate holders.

Today, conventional film holders permit use of 6.5x8.5 film sheets directly. As mentioned above, it's best we start referring to the format as 6.5x8.5 to avoid this confusion with glass plates. I probably should have insisted that Ebony use my first suggested camera name (SV6585) too!

The plate designator keeps re-appearing because the longish 6.5X8.5 or even more cumbersome 6½ X 8½ is difficult to keep typing. How about shortening it to simply 6585? Might take a while to catch on but.....

[Eric James]

What is it, and what does it mean - "6585"?

[Sal Santamaura]

...How about shortening it to simply 6585? Might take a while to catch on but.....

Do you think we should ask ISO to have a standards committee look into it?

Seriously, I'm game; let's ask other interested parties to chime in. Jim, perhaps you'd like to start a poll thread?

[audioexcels]

Do you think we should ask ISO to have a standards committee look into it?

Seriously, I'm game; let's ask other interested parties to chime in. Jim, perhaps you'd like to start a poll thread?

I think it's a way cool designation, though 6969 might have been better depending on your preference

[Steve Hamley]

FWIW,

I just had an 8x10 (that's whole-print size ) matted into an 11x14 frame with a 6.5x8.5 mat opening. Does look rather better than 8x10, but I think I'd still rather currently do this than pop for a new, not used, 6.5x8.5 film camera.

BTW, those lenses that will cover 4x5, 5x7, and 6.5x8.5 but not 8x10, you can still shoot them on 8x10 with the framing marks on the GG then crop the print... It's just like a reducing back without the extra wood blocking your view.

Steve

[Ted R]

I suggest using the letters WP instead of numbers. I've had a "modern" WP Kodak camera for about 15 years, brought it over to the US from UK but have never used it here because I ran out of film. I was using Ilford. I notice that they will supply if one meets the minimum order requirement, which I can't do. The Kodak is black and silver constructed from wood stained black and steel parts painted silver to look like aluminum a nice combination. I guess it was made in the 1950s and has rising front and front tilt, tilt back and swivel back. It is quite light and compact, it was easy to carry folded up, much easier than the Devere monorail studio camera I began with!


I bought into the size as a way of getting large format quality without needing an enlarger, I made contact prints on 10 x 8 paper and they were very fine quality. I collected a set of three older Schneider 4x5 lenses that will cover WP when no movements are needed as with some landscape and portrait work. I still have everything, including Kodak tank, hangers and dark slides. I eventually bought a Kodak 8x10 model B and Symmar lens and did some Polaroid work with that. I don't ever see myself having a large format enlarger but the contact print method is excellent.

Ted

[Scott Davis]

Ted- as an FYI, Ilford is now doing an annual "odd LF film size" order program. You can get WP film through this program, and quite possibly throughout the year as well, from several of the dealers who are acting as agents for this program. Try contacting The View Camera Store in Arizona, Hunt's Photo in Massachussetts, and perhaps Midwest Photo or Badger Graphics (not sure of their participation in the order program). In any case, they frequently have ordered more stock and may be able to supply you with some despite this year's pre-order period being closed. Call them and see.

[Ted R]

Ted- as an FYI, Ilford is now doing an annual "odd LF film size" order program. You can get WP film through this program, and quite possibly throughout the year as well, from several of the dealers who are acting as agents for this program. Try contacting The View Camera Store in Arizona, Hunt's Photo in Massachussetts, and perhaps Midwest Photo or Badger Graphics (not sure of their participation in the order program). In any case, they frequently have ordered more stock and may be able to supply you with some despite this year's pre-order period being closed. Call them and see.

That's good to know thanks. Sounds like the renewed Ilford is being resourceful. I recall when they discontinued it in the UK, my heart sank. I worked in Paramus NJ for eight years on the next block to the Ilford US headquarters, I used to walk past the place most days on my lunch break. The last time I passed by the ILFORD sign had gone but left weathered letters in the face of the building. I'm taking a camera next time I'm in the area.
Ted

[Vaughan]

An update on whole plate: as at February 2022 Shanghai GP3 100 is currently available in 6.5x8.5 on Aliexpress (the web site). Shanghai are also making GP3 film available in a dizzying array of other cut sheet sizes both smaller and larger, and several other older roll film sizes like 127.

I have taken the opportunity to purchase a box of GP3 and picked up a WP back and holders for the Rittreck View. The backs are available for ~AUS$150 including postage often with a holder or two, compared to ~AUS$900 for an 8x10 back.

My experience with GP3 in 4x5 and 5x7 has been most acceptable. I have had some issues but these are likely from poor development at my end (tip: a pre-wash before development seems to solve the problem). Cost-wise the WP is between 5x7 and 8x10. Here in Australia including postage the cost per sheet are in round figures:

4x5 AUD$2.00
5x7 AUD$3.50
WP AUD$4.50
8x10 AUD$5.50

The holders produce an exposed film area of 203mm by 155mm which is a circle of 255mm. Many lenses cover this particularly those from the early Fujinon range, including the SW 120mm (and NSW 125mm) f8. The modest Fujinon W 150mm f5.6 is short only by 5mm and most lenses longer than this will cover. The Fujinon W 135mm f5.6 image circle is 228mm, just 27mm short of the 255mm needed to cover, so it too may be usable at a pinch.

A note on the holders: although these are modern double cut film holders (not book-form plate holders) of the five holders I purchased from the same seller one lot (two holders) were about 1cm narrower than the other three. The larger holders fitted the back. The holders are usually marked "Rittreck View" and have distinctive red dark slides, the back is branded "Rittreck Hope" and is hammered-metal-painted wood on a metal extension, and both the back and holders were apparently made by Tachihara. I plan to shim the smaller holders to the same width as the larger to make them work. Note that both holders fit the same size sheet of film internally.

I'm not sure whether there are two sizes of Rittreck Hope WP back to fit the two sizes of holders, so I recommend when buying backs and holders to confirm with the seller about their size and fitment.

[Kiwi7475]

An update on whole plate: as at February 2022 Shanghai GP3 100 is currently available in 6.5x8.5 on Aliexpress (the web site). Shanghai are also making GP3 film available in a dizzying array of other cut sheet sizes both smaller and larger, and several other older roll film sizes like 127.

I have taken the opportunity to purchase a box of GP3 and picked up a WP back and holders for the Rittreck View. The backs are available for ~AUS$150 including postage often with a holder or two, compared to ~AUS$900 for an 8x10 back.

My experience with GP3 in 4x5 and 5x7 has been most acceptable. I have had some issues but these are likely from poor development at my end (tip: a pre-wash before development seems to solve the problem). Cost-wise the WP is between 5x7 and 8x10. Here in Australia including postage the cost per sheet are in round figures:

4x5 AUD$2.00
5x7 AUD$3.50
WP AUD$4.50
8x10 AUD$5.50

The holders produce an exposed film area of 203mm by 155mm which is a circle of 255mm. Many lenses cover this particularly those from the early Fujinon range, including the SW 120mm (and NSW 125mm) f8. The modest Fujinon W 150mm f5.6 is short only by 5mm and most lenses longer than this will cover. The Fujinon W 135mm f5.6 image circle is 228mm, just 27mm short of the 255mm needed to cover, so it too may be usable at a pinch.

A note on the holders: although these are modern double cut film holders (not book-form plate holders) of the five holders I purchased from the same seller one lot (two holders) were about 1cm narrower than the other three. The larger holders fitted the back. The holders are usually marked "Rittreck View" and have distinctive red dark slides, the back is branded "Rittreck Hope" and is hammered-metal-painted wood on a metal extension, and both the back and holders were apparently made by Tachihara. I plan to shim the smaller holders to the same width as the larger to make them work. Note that both holders fit the same size sheet of film internally.

I'm not sure whether there are two sizes of Rittreck Hope WP back to fit the two sizes of holders, so I recommend when buying backs and holders to confirm with the seller about their size and fitment.

Thank for posting this. I’ve used GP3 in 8x10 and smaller sizes before and I like it. I just checked on AliExpress in 11x14 but at $119 for 10 sheets it’s exactly as expensive as HP5+… which I do find superior…. It used to be more competitive before….