Paul,
"if it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, oinks like a pig, and tastes like a pig..."
So you really don't know, right?
Paul,
"if it looks like a pig, smells like a pig, oinks like a pig, and tastes like a pig..."
So you really don't know, right?
Kerry has worked very hard for the LF community over the years. If Mr. Thalmann is no longer involved, I see no reason to put my money on the line.
I too have been doing business with SE Asia for the past 10 years. It's not easy. There are vast chasms between East and West when it comes to doing business. Paul, I have no idea how you make it work. You can't believe how hard we work to get something out of India (engineering)...
I would seem prudent for this manufacturer to show face at some event where the camera can be displayed and questions can be answered. It would also seem wise for the owner to address the service questions above, especially since, and as stated, he might disappear for weeks at a time on his travels. I would suspect his factory is still working tho? If anything can be learned here, it is that Americans value service quite highly, especially on items of high cost. It is still a new world for private American individuals to purchase any item, let alone high dollar items from overseas, especially when there are no American referrals for the item or abilities to judge the item thru handling.
Maybe something like a PayPal or Ebay account would help alleviate some anxiety? What I would appreciate as a buyer is recourse; Something that is not seemingly available when dealing overseas. If anything, the world of online equipment purchases, especially for used items, has made all of us quite leery and this can certainly be projected towards items of high cost and foreign manufacture. To be put simply, when in Rome do as the Romans. If you do not understand the term, when in the U.S. do business as the Americans do. Establish yourself, prove yourself and be there when we need you.
Hey - mellow out folks. Hugo is a respected member of this community - he and people like him make this place what it is.
Okay, perhaps names should not have been mentioned without pemission - I'm sure that the parties involved are big enough to put it behind them.
Hugo - if you want to make this thing fly you'll likely have to travel to trade shows.
Alternatively, Hugo can do an open house to demo the cameras. Plane ticket is cheap.Originally Posted by Eric James
It would be nice if the cameras are offered with different levels of customer support, say,
Including supports that the Americans are used to, the camera price is $5000; No customer supports at all, price is $1500; and anything in between, these are just examples. I would give the camera a demo-trial, and if it's good, I'd buy it with no customer supports. I'm a handy person, I have no problem fixing it if it breaks. I prefer to spend my money on films to keep the film available.
Thank you for your kind word, Eric! Quite a relief after taking this much heat after my first posting.
The sample 7x17 camera and holder for the VC review should be back to me soon and I can show interested parties in southern California.
Life is learning. I have been shooting LF for a few years and my gears never seem to need service and support from a dealer. Plus the fact Chamonix didn't want to get into US market in its first two years because they want to work out the bugs and see their cameras can work smoothly in users' hands. They have very rigid quality control procedures and don't want to increase volume just to meet demand. They are not going to expand their operation and want to go slowly to build their brand name. It's my fault, I tempted Chamonix with our market place.
Wayne, In a perfect world, it's nice to have a network of dealers in US for support and service. But we don't live in a perfect world. A well financed dealer to import the cameras. Ocean freight lasts three to six months for small amount of items. Dealers fair and modest margin and high operation costs. Domestic shipping to buyers. My fair and modest cut. All these added up and nobody was happy. Buyer will be paying more for cameras. I had no other choice but to do this way. I have a Paypal account for use when needed.
Communication problems with the owner who has to travel between his factory in southern China and Beijing and sometimes for his photo trips. I warned him that he had to cut down his photography to serve our US market. Since then I has been talking with him with no problem. He has delivered fine products to me as promised.
My goal is really simple: to put these beautiful cameras in users hands here. Thankfully people have sent private emails to encourage me and asking for prices and other information.
I am grateful to this forum and people who have showed me their understanding and support.
I have no problem in the age of the internet and international shipping with buying from a foreign manufacturer with no domestic service or representation. There are plenty of civilized countries out there with high quality businesses, including China, and in some cases one does better by going to the source.
But in this case the situation with Kerry raises some genuine concerns about the way that Chamonix conducts business. Kerry's obviously invested time, labor, and I assume money in this project, and he has generated interest in these cameras by lending his credibility to the company, and it seems from Hugo Zhang's initial announcement and the tone of Kerry's response that Kerry's been unceremoniously cut out of the picture. It doesn't look good.
Your amusement was not so sincere, it seems. And your allusions at what happened (so you don't know anything..?) gives you really the much needed credit in the eyes of customers. Never mind, you don't need it, you get a lot of emails from potential customers.. So Chamonix is coming? Or maybe leaving.
I, at least from the photos, think the Chaminox cameras look pretty nice but perhaps the first buyers will be able to give more realistic responses soon. I'm not sure though Hugo why you would be saying that all the expenses were just too much and such to have a US distributor... Isn't that just the cost of doing business? It doesnt seem to bother Lotus or Ebony sales here in the US. Shipping and overhead is mostly a business write off at the end of the year anyway and with the customer of course paying for domestic shipping. Also...if expenses are really to be cut to the bone...why in the world would you want to process Paypal and pay an extra 4% or so of the total retail price.... Thats $200- per $5000- sale, almost a dealers cut. Are your profit margins that good?? I'm really not getting your statements here. But anyway...maybe buyers will happy with their Chaminox cameras and things will iron themselves out...I just wonder why you want to be the cheapest guy on the block. Why not just charge a fair price for a good product and use a distributor to iron out the difficulties. But I guess you do have a US distributor, he just doesnt know it yet.
If I do remember well, CHAMONIX is a well known orange cake from NESTLE, and still alive.
It gives little room for a LF brand
yes, Michel.
Now going 100% OFF-TOPIC (moderator, fell free to apply the Hard Rules ;-))
For those interested, Chamonix-Orange®, as it was branded in the past, now simply branded Chamonix®, it is a kind of ginger bread, orange-flavoured, covered with an "icy" crust of sugar. Hence the icy reference to Chamonix. Not good for you diet, but so delicious ;-)
It has been on the market, at least in France, for at least half a century and is probably marketed in the EU without trouble.
So previous regulations did not prohibit to call a product 'Chamonix'.
Very probably there would be little objection to register a brand name 'Chamonix-Camera'. How many AAA-repair, AAAA-repair, AAAAA-repair are registered in the States without any objection from the well-established AAA ;-) ;-) and how many 'ACME' ;-)
'Champagne' is a different issue. Here are some true stories that I like very much.
(disclaimer 100% OFF-TOPIC !! I'm not affiliated, etc...)
1/ A well-know French luxury company was a few years ago denied the right to use the name 'Champagne' for a perfume sold in France. But regulations are different in the rest of the world.
2/ In Switzerland (Vaud county) there is a nice village named : Champagne. The village has been known under this name and has been producing wine for such a long time that you could imagine since the Roman times
However they would have hard times selling their wine abroad under the brand 'Champagne'.
However, in the same village, there is a fine manufacturer of biscuits. One of the products I prefer in this product line are "bricelets" a kind of wafer, similar to a 3" silicon wafer but more crispy ;-)
Their brand as a biscuit manufacturer is : "De Champagne". They opened a factory in nearby France and first sold their product under a different brand. Probably they eventually succeded in using the brand 'De Champagne' in France since they abandoned the other brand that nobody would recognise.
3/ Another funny story about legally using the name of a village for a commercial purpose.
In France there is a place named : Aoste. No connexion at all with Aosta in Italy, a famous place located just on the other side of.. Chamonix where people speak French as well;-)
A company located in Aoste, France, makes ham and advertises it as 'Aoste Ham' (Jambon d'Aoste). Many French customers associate the name Aoste with Italy, and hence associate the brand with a top-quality image. There has never been anything like 'Aosta Prosciutto' in Italy, although the ham that you can enjoy as antipasti in Aosta, when you come down, exhausted, from climbing the Italian Side of Mont Blanc carrying your LF gear in your backpack is most probably top-class ;-)
So apparently, nobody can deny the guys in Aoste, France, to sell 'Jambon d'Aoste' like, probably, nobody can deny the rights to sell 'de Champagne' biscuits
So again, good luck to... Ch.... cameras !
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