Nagaoka - a film format mystery?

[Christopher Perez]

Dear Partying Photographic Pundits Pandering Proof of Possibilities,

I just took a look at a Nagaoka wood field camera that has a 4 3/4inch x 6 1/2inch film back.

I thought I'd seen everything. But what's this? Obviously, this isn't 5x7 nor is it 4x5. It seems a very strange format.

Any ideas on vintage? Why they made such a thing? Who would have made film and holders for it?

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Chris,

The camera is English half-plate size. There were two main half-plate sizes: The original 4.25 x 5.5", seen in mid-19th century images. The English half-plate, 4.75 x 6.5" came around, as I recall, in the late-19th century, and could be found in Europe into the 1930s or so, and in Japan until the 1950s, possibly later. Maybe our Oren Grad can speculate on why these formats remained popular in Japan...

[Sven Schroder]

Hi Chris
Nagoka with an English twist, as the dimensions are those of Half plate. My 5x7 Gandolfi is actually Halfplate and my modern Fidelity elite Darkslides say 12x16.5 but also in smaller lettering "5x7 cut film holder" so it would be a small matter of enlarging the back to make it full 5x7. So 5x7 holders will fit but you won't be exposing all the film , gandolfi can do this and similar tech's in the states. I'am considering having the work done to widen the choice of emulsions available.

Not Partying yet just enjoying a sesonal cheer ; )
Sven

[Oren Grad]

4 3/4 x 6 1/2 is the Japanese "kyabine" or "cabinet" size:

http://www.edsebooks.com/paper/miscjpaper.html

The size is still commonly used for prints, though a quick check shows that many labs seem to have moved to "big kyabine" which is just 5x7. It can also be found in tables of large format lenses, where it's used to indicate recommended format for Japanese brand lenses - for example, in the 2005 Nippon Camera annual that I have on hand, the Fujinon SWD 65 is indicated as a 4x5 lens and the SWD 90 as a 5x7 lens, but the SWD 75 is listed as a "kyabine" lens.

Also, if you look at the English version of the online listing of Congo lens specifications, you'll see that the 200/4 Soft Focus lens is specified for "Cabinet" size.

There's a particular early model of Toyo folding metal field camera that shows up here occasionally and drives people crazy for the same reason. Buyers dearly want it to be a 5x7, but it's usually seen with a 4 3/4 x 6 1/2 back.

I don't know why "kyabine" remained popular for so much longer in Japan - I'm sure a historian of Japanese commerce and culture could tell an interesting story about it.

[tim atherton]

I seem to recall the Japanese had their own film plate sizes?

[tim atherton]

okay - the Orenopaedia had it....

[Ernest Purdum]

The Japanese portrait and tourist photographers were a most conservative group. In the early 1970's many, perhaps most, were still using equipment closely resembling that modern in Britain about the year 1905. Half-plate "Double dark-slide" plateholders were the standard, fitted with sheaves to take film. Most did use modern tripods with adapters to fill in the turntable rather than the individual hardwood legs for which the cameras were originally designed. The lens was usually a "Congo" often with a roller-blind shutter. All such cameras and accessories were still available, although modified designs were rapidly coming on the market. Many of our modern field cameras still have obvious relationship to British models as perpetuated in Japan.

Does yours have the turntable in the bed? This was the first feature to go. If so, it is probably a mid-1970's product or later. We have llost a couple of advantages of the turntable. It permitted closing the camera with the lens in place and avoided cracking of the bed which is an over-frequent problem. I think the latter is why Deardorff put their big aluminum disc on the bottom. Someone, but I don't remember who, replaced the turntable with a bowl-shaped metal piece which provided lens protection. I think this was an excellent idea which other makers might well take up.

If you have the holders, I think 1/2-plate film is still available. Maybe someone will tell you where,

[Christopher Perez]

Wow! You guys are AMAZING!!! This is great history for a somewhat agile mind to absorb.

I have an Ikeda Anba and the Nagaoka in question look nearly identical. That is to say, they look like they have been manufactured sometime after 1970 (give/take). I will measure the two cameras to see if there is any physical difference. The fact that both are incredibly light weight is, of course, of great attraction to me. And the half plate Naga comes with a 4x5 adapter back too.

Can anyone point me to a source for half plate film holders? I assume someone like Toyo made them in Japan, but there must be other modern film holder makers too.

[Ash]

i bought about 5 half-plate 'antique' double dark slide (wooden, i think mahogany) plate holders off the bay for about £6 each I think.

My field camera is half plate, I made my own mini-frames to hold 4x5 inside the holders, but it's hardly ideal and for the cost of making a reducing back to fit 4x5 on the camera I decided to invest in a real 4x5 monorail.

In the UK there's at least one manufacturer still selling half plate film. Retro Photographic has it in stock I think

[Jim Jones]

My Konishiroku (Konica) "kabine" Japanese Navy outfit, dated June 1944, came with 4 3/4 X 6 1/2 inch double glass plate holders. It is remotely similar to the Plaubel Makina, but with a different strut arrangement and a focal plane shutter. The craftsmanship of the camera seems good for that late in the war. The case, made of some fiber material, is disintegrating.