Piezography Printing

[Helen Bach]

No, all the 4-color piezography inksets (when used with museum black) are pure carbon. This includes warm neutral, cool neutral, and the selenium hue, along with carbon sepia.
...

That's not what Inkjetmall and Cone say. They use some very careful wording, I think. See my verbatim quote above re PiezoTone. They claim 'pure pigment'. Ask Inkjetmall if you don't believe me.

Best,
Helen

[paulr]

That's not what Inkjetmall and Cone say. They use some very careful wording

"PiezoTone Warm Neutral inks
Light, medium, and dark gray dilutions of warm neutral hue, 100% pure carbon pigments in an aqueous solution EPSON compatible ink set."
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.243/.f

"PiezoTone Selenium Tone inks
Light, medium, and dark gray dilutions of selenium tone hue, 100% pure carbon pigments in an aqueous solution EPSON compatible ink set."
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.246/.f

"PiezoTone Cool Neutral inks
Light, medium, and dark gray dilutions of cool neutral hue, 100% pure carbon pigments in an aqueous solution EPSON compatible ink set."
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.244/.f

"PiezoTone Carbon Sepia inks
Light, medium, and dark gray dilutions of carbon sepia hue, 100% pure carbon pigments in an aqueous solution EPSON compatible ink set."
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.247/.f

[sanking]

Jim,

As we've already discussed, there is a very limited range of 'pure carbon' ink available. The only Cone ink set that has pigments that are nothing but carbon is the Carbon Sepia PiezoTone set. That's OK if you like sepia. Galleries should realise this if they want 'pure carbon'. The idea that it is equivalent to the historical use of carbon in printing is marketing BS, in my opinion. If guaranteed longevity is an issue, and if you are happy with a density range of around 1.5, then real Pt/Pd prints would seem to be the best answer.


Best,
Helen

What is the secret to getting reflexive Dmax readings of log 2.5 and above? Is it the paper or the pigment or the two together?

I make real carbon transfer prints and even the tissue itself that the image is made from, which is made from pure carbon black, is visually incredibly black, but it only measures about log 2.2 with a densitometer.

Sandy King

[Kirk Gittings]

Very good question Sandy. I would love to know the answer to that question.

[sanking]

Very good question Sandy. I would love to know the answer to that question.

I am also intrigued by the color issue. Pure carbon lampblack is, at least in my experience, a very neutral black. Over the years I have used a lot lampblack in making carbon tissue and all of it has been neutral black. So how are people making pure carbon pigments that are blue and sepia in color?

Sandy King

[shileshjani]

What is the secret to getting reflexive Dmax readings of log 2.5 and above? Is it the paper or the pigment or the two together?

I make real carbon transfer prints and even the tissue itself that the image is made from, which is made from pure carbon black, is visually incredibly black, but it only measures about log 2.2 with a densitometer.

Sandy King

Both from my experience. I have read reflective density readings of 2.5+ with:

(1) Epson K3 Photo Black ink on most semgloss, luster papers, including Crane Silver Rag, Innova Type F Gloss, and even Epson Premium Luster. Some sort of overcoat (Print Shield or Krystal TopKote) pushes Dmax past 2.5. I have seen a few of Helen's prints.

(2) NanoChrome black ink on swellable polymer papers such as Epson Print Life(?), and Ilford Gallerie Classic range. If memory serves me correct, I was measuring a whopping 2.7 density with this combo.

[tim atherton]

I am also intrigued by the color issue. Pure carbon lampblack is, at least in my experience, a very neutral black. Over the years I have used a lot lampblack in making carbon tissue and all of it has been neutral black. So how are people making pure carbon pigments that are blue and sepia in color?

Sandy King

MIS makes it clear that they use a small amount of pigment tint (done in different ways in different inksets) to do this. For this they have generally tried to chose pigment colours/types which exhibit the greatest longevity (for example a certain type of blue pigment they chose for cooler tones). Cone doesnt seem to be quite as forthcoming about how he achieves this and seems to use slightly different terminology in different places? (I can't quite see how he achieves tones from warm through blue/cool to neutral to sepia "just" using pure carbon pigment only?)

The carbon pigment they all use when it is "just" carbon pigment always seems to give a quite distinctly warm tone when used on its own though (as opposed to your neutral "lamp black")

[Eric_Scott]

(I can't quite see how he achieves tones from warm through blue/cool to neutral to sepia "just" using pure carbon pigment only?)

...

The carbon pigment they all use when it is "just" carbon pigment always seems to give a quite distinctly warm tone when used on its own though (as opposed to your neutral "lamb black")

I read the blurb at Cone's site entitled "Are you a purist?" the same way Helen does: only the carbon sepia inkset is pure carbon. The other inksets use a second pigment, but he doesn't say what it is.

Your observation of warm tones using only carbon pigment is consistent with my experience in making carbon transfer prints on bright white paper using only carbon black. The tissue is very black, but the print made from it is quite warm. The color of Cone's carbon sepia inkset is practically the same as the color of my carbon transfers made using only carbon black. Coincincidence?

Eric Scott

[sanking]

The carbon pigment they all use when it is "just" carbon pigment always seems to give a quite distinctly warm tone when used on its own though (as opposed to your neutral "lamb black")

I am intrigued by this. Pure carbon pigment/lampblack has a very neutral black color to me. And I have used literally dozens, if not hundreds, of them over the years in carbon printing. To understand what lampblack is, just look at charcoal. How do you change the color of charcoal since it is supposed to be one of the most permanent and inert substances on the planet (unless you make a diamond from it)?

For warm black tones I use something like Ivory Black or Sumi Ink, or add some burnt umber to lamplack. I am sure that these colors are mostly lampblack, but probably contain some other pigments.

Sandy King

[tim atherton]

I am intrigued by this. Pure carbon pigment/lampblack has a very neutral black color to me. And I have used literally dozens, if not hundreds, of them over the years in carbon printing. To understand what lampblack is, just look at charcoal. How do you change the color of charcoal since it is supposed to be one of the most permanent and inert substances on the planet (unless you make a diamond from it)?

For warm black tones I use something like Ivory Black or Sumi Ink, or add some burnt umber to lamplack. I am sure that these colors are mostly lampblack, but probably contain some other pigments.

Sandy King

I know - I'm not sure what they are using, but the early carbon pigment inksets where they just used carbon "black" and (in those days) three or four different dilutions for grey shades were always quite warm. Then later, in order to cool them down a bit one of the things they did was add a very slight blue pigment to one ink, for example.

I'm not sure what is the actual basis for the carbon pigment they use in the inksets?

Maybe Paul Roark who does a lot of stuff with MIS would now?