Fujinon W 180 & 8x10

[Hugo Zhang]

If you have to have a 180mm lens that covers 8x10, the Zeiss Dagor f/9 is a good choice. Not easy to find, but it has an image circle of 15 1/2 inches. Tiny and sharp. My favorite 810 wide angle lens. The regular Dagor 240mm f/6.8 lens has an image circle of 14 inches. Yes, a Protar v 181mm will cover slightly more (16 inches of image circle) than Zeiss Dagor f/9, but it is not easy to focus.

[xkaes]

There are two versions of the lens, one in a Seiko shutter the other in a Copal. In my testing the Copal shutter version has a slightly larger circle.

This is interesting because there was the 180mm W f5.6 and the 180mm W S f5.6. There's lots of literature about the W series, but not about the W S series, but they appeared at the same time. The shorter W series lenses had Seiko shutters, as did the W S series, but the longer lenses had Copal shutters. The exceptions seem to be the 180mm, 210mm (?), and 250mm f6.7. They started out with Seiko shutters and later switched to Copal shutters.

Why that would impact the image circle is a good question. Perhaps at the same time the shutter switch was made, the optical design was tweaked. Without much literature on the W S lenses, there's not much to work with.

Anyone have any W S series literature?

[Greg]

early brochure
180 W f/5.6
80 degrees
image circle at f/22 - 305mm
Copal 1
recommended format 8 x 10

1982 brochure
180mm NWS f/5.6
76 degrees
image circle at f/22 - 280mm
Copal 1
recommended format 6 1/2 x 8 1/2
in 1982
105mm to 250mm - NWS
300mm and 360mm - WS

[Vaughan]

This is interesting because there was the 180mm W f5.6 and the 180mm W S f5.6. There's lots of literature about the W series, but not about the W S series, but they appeared at the same time. The shorter W series lenses had Seiko shutters, as did the W S series, but the longer lenses had Copal shutters. The exceptions seem to be the 180mm, 210mm (?), and 250mm f6.7. They started out with Seiko shutters and later switched to Copal shutters.

Why that would impact the image circle is a good question. Perhaps at the same time the shutter switch was made, the optical design was tweaked. Without much literature on the W S lenses, there's not much to work with.

Anyone have any W S series literature?

Of the single-coated lenses, those in size 0 shutters (150mm and shorter) are always Seiko. Lenses in size 1 shutters are often found in either Seiko or Copal. The front and rear cell thread diameter of the Seiko and Copal shutters are significantly different so the lens cells are not interchangeable(*). The rear lens cell diameter is also significantly different so they are probably a different optical formulae.

In my testing the Copal shutter version had about 7mm larger circle, which matters quite a bit when trying to cover 8x10. For anything smaller it's not significant.

(*) I purchased a very nice 180mm lens in Copal shutter that was faulty and a nasty 180mm lens in Seiko shutter that was working, with the intent to swap them over and beat the system. It didn't work. I ended up getting the Copal shutter fixed, and the lens in the Seiko shutter cleaned up nicely so I ended up with two working lenses.

[xkaes]

early brochure
180 W f/5.6
80 degrees
image circle at f/22 - 305mm
Copal 1
recommended format 8 x 10

1982 brochure
180mm NWS f/5.6
76 degrees
image circle at f/22 - 280mm
Copal 1
recommended format 6 1/2 x 8 1/2
in 1982
105mm to 250mm - NWS
300mm and 360mm - WS

The NW 180mm lens is a different lens design from the W & W S 180mm lenses (6/6 vs 6/4), that explains the difference in !C (76° vs 80°) between them.

But the question is the difference in the IC of the 180mm W vs the 180mm W S. It appears that the difference is because of the shutter used (Seiko vs Copal) -- see above post #14.

[Vaidotas]

Lenses that cover 8x10 with movements and that are relatively close to the 180mm focal length are rare. Several try but don't quite get there... like the 165mm Angulon, 159mm Wollensak, 7" Goerz Berlin or Series III Dagor, 7" WF Ektar, 165mm WA Dagor, 185mm Repromaster, etc.

The Protar v 183mm is one that covers with movements, but it's tough to focus with (F18!). The modern ones that do cover "nicely" are going to be monsters... e.g. 165mm Super-Angulon, 210mm super-Symmar XL, 155 Grandagon.... there's others.

I think if you want to go that wide, then the Nikkor SW 150mm and particularly the Super-symmar XL 150mm are the more reasonable ones. Not small but not gigantic. Just crop a little bit from 150 to 180mm if needed. Or from the other side, go for a Computar 210mm f9.

One more thought. If you’re really set on “it has to be 180mm”, then the most rational way is to simply shoot a 90mm lens in 4x5. There just isn’t a great alternative in 8x10, if it also has to be light, cheap, etc. That’s just the reality, albeit not what we all would like to hear.

Here is an interesting thread, related to “180mm & 8x10” topic:

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...-Lens-Database

Andrew, interesting video as always, thanks.

[ic-racer]

WS : S = Seiko. Great information in post #14.

[ic-racer]

11x14 print from the 180mm.

[xkaes]

WS : S = Seiko. Great information in post #14.

Good guess, but the longer focal length W S lenses only came in Copal shutters -- just like the W lenses. The shorter focal length W and W S lenses were the ones that were provided with Seiko shutters.

[Lachlan 717]

11x14 print from the lens.

Attachment 249306

Link seems broken.