Isn’t this the way it’s always been, and will continue to be in the future?Originally Posted by Pieter
Isn’t this the way it’s always been, and will continue to be in the future?
There used to be a market for nude pictures, we cant lie about that. But now with the glut of cheap nudes on ebay photograph section,, is there even a point for that anymore.
Playboy sold off fine art oversized FLAT prints packed like fine art for $3.00 each and shipped for pittance.
12 x 36”
I used to live close to Hef, but never went there.
My last ever wife did hand touchup for Playboy by courier 50 miles north.
All shot on 8x10
Analog printing
Last edited by Tin Can; 12-Mar-2024 at 05:22. Reason: add facts
Tin Can
there still is a market for nude pictures. "fine art nudes" as well as porn, humans haven't evolved. if you have higher aspiration like becoming someone who sells their nude photographs for a lot of money, you have to study and exploit the marketplace and make a spectacle of yourself. you have to become a known quantity. it becomes your "commercial work". is there a point? I can't answer that for you. there is a point to what I am doing... usually there is no point, it's much easier to just give up.
I remember IDK 10-15 years back playboy was selling off their 8x10 film holders one at a time on eBay, it was hilarious all these people fawning over expensive "if these film holders could talk" film holders.
Last edited by jnantz; 12-Mar-2024 at 07:31.
The following is just my opinion from being a small business owner in a niche engineering field and my being engaged in many artistic avocations over 40 years and having many conversations with friends who make their "living" as artists.
The question "is there a market" for any art form is so often asked is yes there are many such markets across a wide spectrum. but what you really need to know is "is there a market for the quality of product you the photographer are capable of producing. The second question to ask is can you produce your products at the going rate for the quality level you can produce. This is where most such potential businesses fail, by either failing to understand their cost of operating or by being too inefficient to match their competitor's rates.
The OP clearly pointed out that yes, there is a huge business opportunity in meeting the mass market demands of cheap consumers looking to purchase a cheap commodity. This is 99% of the marketplace. This consumer doesn't give a squat about your type of work and never will. So it is best to ignore 99% of consumers, and determine what type seller you wish to be, one who sells prints at a loss, or one who remains solvent, works relentlessly to improve quality and efficiencies, and likely spends every weekend chasing art fairs and other such markets while still producing work, and online marketing content such as youtube videos etc..
If the answer is that you wish to make a living by selling prints then you will likely face disappointment and need to put in a massive level of work, think 80 hours a week when you add everything up. Working from home means you never escape work either.
For every Nick Carver there are 10,000 photographers trying to sell their prints unsuccessfully.
I love photography and fine art printmaking as wonderful avocations that for me are a way of zen meditation and contemplation of the world. I don't even have a website to display any work, it's just not my jam. But for anyone who does have a website, and realistic expectations could easily sell a print or two at a rate they make a profit (but not a living) from if they are selective in what they offer. The tech is just so cheap and simple to implement. So is the occasional sale to make a spare bit of coin to buy new gear worthwhile? For many people it just may be. It is a matter of perspective and expectations.
All most people know today is what they see on the internet or a cell phone screen. But even in the past, only a very small percent of the populace went to places like museums or select galleries to view well displayed, well-made prints. And the common denominator of what passes for taste has only gotten lower. But still, if people have the opportunity to encounter a fine print in person, it can be an epiphany. Many other are simply blind to it. That's OK; they have their own interests.
Spending is a whole other side to it. Some folks can afford anything, and will spend ridiculous amounts of money for oversized kitchy photo decor, or buy commoditized well-known images for sake of an alleged investment - basically gambling. They might themselves have as much artistic instinct as a baked potato, and rely on trends just like lemmings following other lemming. But there are also those people who only buy which they truly like, and which can afford within limited means.
Nothing really changes except the specific media itself. There was an interesting segment on PBS about this a few night ago. Certain 19th C paintings which rich folk bid up to insanely high prices to acquire back then, have now lost 95% of their value. Then of course, you had painters like Van Gogh who sold only 2 paintings in his lifetime, one to his own brother, who felt sorry for him.
I went to a lot of fuss to put up what was an especially good website for back when web speeds were comparatively slow. I held onto it about a decade. I got hits and compliments from nearly every country on earth. But it didn't sell even one print. Wrong audience. On the other hand, my actual gallery openings would turn a profit in the first twenty minutes, because people were not only seeing the real deal, but were real collectors with means. It was an interesting time in my life, and certainly boosted my income enough to make a difference when it was especially needed. But it was also a lot of work, and became time and energy unsustainable once family responsibilities distinctly increased.
I still print of course, and have had a few serious venues since. But there are better ways to make a living, so that you can do what you like on your free time, without needing to take a misfit prybar to it to commercialize it.
There is nothing cheap about fine printmaking, especially if you value your own time. But the sheer ubiquity of mechanized things like modern inkjet printing give that a long-term disadvantage, at least in terms of media per se. People get bored with what they see everywhere
already. A smaller niche holds greater potential, although the factors of luck and connections always seem to be involved too. I don't worry
about any of that anymore. But I have alway made prints trying to please the harshest critic of my work - myself!
I concur with this...
Imagine when people can just say "I want a picture of this subject, that looks like this, and has this size, and fits this aesthetic and voila out pops an image, to which the purchaser can say tweak this and that and then send to be printed at any size as a high res inkjet print, or whatever process you desire and then call it "art'
This is why I shoot for myself and no one else, and don't display work. To me it is about the process and refining my skills to achieve an outcome I want without too much modern tech, and certainly no AI
Environment is a factor for me. Some photos are better in books as part of a story or sequence. Part of my criteria when looking at photos is, "would I want that to hang on my wall, to pass by and look at every day?" Many fine photos seem to be less suited for that. Or they need to be in an environment where they make sense, possible among other photos.
As a tangent to this conversation, I see a lot of big-screen TVs in living rooms (often over the fireplace mantle) where art was traditionally displayed. One would think with the proliferation of digital images that the least that could be done is to take advantage of the screen to display some sort of art rather than the dull black rectangles they are.
in some ways the above sentiment echos my curating philosophy for displaying artwork in my home. But I don't collect artwork based on the criteria of it being "good enough" to display on my wall every day, in fact I dont have any permanent display but rather I rotate collections based on similar themes. For instance my living room wall behind the sofa is used to display original self portraits from artists I know. I have 12 prints that I rotate through in 4 groups every three months.
There is a reason why artists offer work in series. There may be an opportunity for groups of photographers to try to organize sales of prints in a curated series or collection...
You have to die first. But that might be inconvenient.
Flickr Home Page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums
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