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Thread: Push and Pull

  1. #31
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    ...
    I personally dislike interjecting the terms "push" and "pull" with respect to Zone System theory. "Plus" or "Minus" development is less confusing, since the former pair of terms was generally used in relation to automated minor development tweaks to color film development instead.
    Hearing "under" and/or "over" used for exposure and/or development, I tend to think of someone making a mistake.

    I tend not to use contrast controls when printing alt processes, so I have to get the contrast right (and rather high) in the negative. So when I give a negative twice the development recommended by the manufacturer for silver gelatin printing, I am not over developing, I am developing just the right amount.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  2. #32
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Well, I should have qualified that statement with an "often." Certainly, if you test and know what your results are going to be, and if you understand the principles behind the terms well, then pushing and pulling are hardly sloppy guesswork.

    Too often the terms, especially "pushing" get used without any idea of what they really do. Some think film is like digital and that you can just ratchet the ISO setting up and down at will, albeit with the inconvenience of changing development times, and magically get three stops more speed out of a given film, or deal with an ultra-contrasty subject, etc. Likewise, "pulling" gets used to magically enhance shadow detail but the associated reduction in development is often completely unnecessary.

    If you know you're underexposing and losing shadow rendition and compensating for underexposed highlights and expanding a three- or four-stop SBR to an overall contrast that's easier to print, then, by all means, call it pushing

    It's just that "push" and "pull" get bantered around a lot as panaceae for dealing with difficult lighting conditions/SBRs in lieu of better understanding of what's going on.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Zone System is anything but a simplification either. It is, however based on a basic understanding of the underlying sensitometry and tone reproduction principles (and it has that visualization thing going for it too ).

    Best,

    Doremus
    I know what you mean Doremus ..
    people go on about pushing and pulling as if it can fix anything, like stand development in 1:126.5 rodinal with spring water from the fountain of youth ..personally I don't even think about if I am pushing or pulling anything I just expose and develop ..

    John

  3. #33

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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by jnantz View Post
    I know what you mean Doremus ..
    people go on about pushing and pulling as if it can fix anything, like stand development in 1:126.5 rodinal with spring water from the fountain of youth ..personally I don't even think about if I am pushing or pulling anything I just expose and develop ..

    John
    Semi-stand is good for the calf muscles, but only if you extreme minimal agitate.

  4. #34
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Push and Pull

    My advice is shoot 35mm without meter and no evil Auto anything

    until you can shoot daylight

    by thinking and looking at the light, time of day, season...

    don't use a meter
    Tin Can

  5. #35
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R View Post
    Semi-stand is good for the calf muscles, but only if you extreme minimal agitate.
    that's pretty good stuff, kind of dangerous to give instructions like that in a public forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    My advice is shoot 35mm without meter and no evil Auto anything

    until you can shoot daylight

    by thinking and looking at the light, time of day, season...

    don't use a meter
    couldn't agree more !

  6. #36
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    Re: Push and Pull

    I roll my own 35 with 12 shots

    Yes it wastes some film!

    But not really

    I buy 100 ft rolls

    Soon I will show how far we can enlarge 35
    Tin Can

  7. #37

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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    Soon I will show how far we can enlarge 35
    In 1991 I worked for a friend of mine (Canadian photographer Arno Maggs) as his darkroom technician/assistant. One project we worked on together was his series "Hotel"(click on link to view), which involved making huge prints from 35mm negatives. Each print was either 6 or 8 feet tall by approximately 2 feet wide. We printed these on Ilford MGFB rolls using a Beseler 23C II enlarger on its side, projecting on a wall, and developed the prints in wallpaper paste trays! So yeah - you can make some pretty big prints from 35mm, if you have the will to do so!

  8. #38
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Now guess taking format on all actual prints

    Tin Can by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr
    Tin Can

  9. #39
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Over the web it might make little difference, viewing the prints in person it very well might.

  10. #40
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    Re: Push and Pull

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Can View Post
    I roll my own 35 with 12 shots

    Yes it wastes some film!

    But not really

    I buy 100 ft rolls

    Soon I will show how far we can enlarge 35
    if you ever get a chance view guillaume zuili's 35mm enlargements they are gigantic and absolutely beautiful

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