Ansels The Negative

[djdister]

I don't know about that. I've left a few eggs on the kitchen counter left the room and when I got back I was eating an omelette. I've left (empty of film) cameras in my basement, came back months later and found film in them ready to process .. im sure something similar might happen with negatives if left in the right circumstances.

Sounds like the infinite monkey theorem at work...

[jnantz]

Sounds like the infinite monkey theorem at work...

if it works I don't mess with it!

[Mark Sawyer]

Sounds like the infinite monkey theorem at work...

"The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type any given text, including the complete works of William Shakespeare."

According to the Theory of Evolution, it already happened.

[6x6TLL]

Yes, thanks for the correction.

[Corran]

Personally reading The Camera and The Negative cover-to-cover before exposing my first sheet of 4x5 or developing any film ever put me well ahead of the curve. While I definitely had to learn a lot of things simply from experience, I didn't start by questioning Adams' statements (nor did I notice anything contradictory on first blush).

IMO it's time to just start practicing. Expose some film.

[John Layton]

...no, I think its called the "100th monkey theorem," where if there were 100 monkeys typing on into infinity...they would indeed come up with Shakesphere's works. Then again...if you think about it - would not this still be the case if it were but one monkey...typing into infinity?

[Drew Wiley]

Well, Michael, scene contrast compression ala Zone mantra minus development DOES work, and does vindicate the methodology, but unfortunately, not in a manner either you or I seem to like esthetically. I'd rather choose a particular film to suitably fit the actual range rather than stomp the intermediate tonality flat using heavy-handed minus development. We've discussed this often before, so no sense belaboring it again. But it is one of the aspects which I find unappealing about classic Zonie dogma.

Then there's alway supplemental masking, a versatile tool indeed if you want to keep your cake, contrast-wise, and eat it too.

Mark and John - that's what all this new Artificial Intelligence imaging technology is for - creating way more monkeys way faster.

[jnantz]

...no, I think its called the "100th monkey theorem," where if there were 100 monkeys typing on into infinity...they would indeed come up with Shakesphere's works. Then again...if you think about it - would not this still be the case if it were but one monkey...typing into infinity?

whatever they are, 100, 1,000,000 or a monkey doing AI. Shakespeare is easy I'd rather read a million monkey version of a Borrough's Cut-up ..

[Michael R]

Well, Michael, scene contrast compression ala Zone mantra minus development DOES work, and does vindicate the methodology, but unfortunately, not in a manner either you or I seem to like esthetically. I'd rather choose a particular film to suitably fit the actual range rather than stomp the intermediate tonality flat using heavy-handed minus development. We've discussed this often before, so no sense belaboring it again. But it is one of the aspects which I find unappealing about classic Zonie dogma.

Then there's alway supplemental masking, a versatile tool indeed if you want to keep your cake, contrast-wise, and eat it too.

Mark and John - that's what all this new Artificial Intelligence imaging technology is for - creating way more monkeys way faster.

Ok but my point was minus development doesn’t increase the amount of information in the negative. It can really only decrease it.

[Drew Wiley]

Yep, that is certainly true, although it all depends on just how badly the sandwich was squished. For example, when making enlarged duplicate negatives, it's important to somewhat overexpose yet under-develop the internegative for sake of cooperative full information, and then boost the contrast back up when making the second final printing negative itself. And by all means, use a film with a relatively long straight line like FP4.

But all too often Zonies are taught to place shadows way up belt high on Zone III, and then to handle that gross overexposure by seriously under-developing. Well, there goes all the life and sparkle of the midtones and upper highlights, which is exactly why neither you nor I like that approach. There are partial remedies, like buying Farmer's Reducer in 55-gallon industrial drums, to brighten up all the blaah highlights.