Help with TF4 / TF5 vs ilford rapid fixer - pros & cons

[Serge S]

There was a post about TF2 - got me wondering about potential benefits of TF4 / TF5

I process HP5/FP4 in DDX & use a water stop bath & Ilford rapid fix
(On rare occasion use Tmax or Foma film)

Is there any benefit to switching to TF4 or TF5?

I'm still setting up my darkroom - so have not resumed printing yet,
but thinking of using Ilford Multigrade Developer.
Would I need to use a stop bath?

Used to use Dektol & D76
I prefer liquid chemistry.

Thanks in advance!

Serge

[Mark Sampson]

I've used TF-5 for a few years now. It's long-lasting, works quickly, and doesn't stink. Washes out of DW FB paper quickly, too. I use a citric acid stop bath with paper and film. The materials I use now don't seem to require a hardener in the fixer, so that's not an issue.
TF-5 seems to be a big improvement over traditional rapid fixers, and I'm not going back.

[Michael R]

There was a post about TF2 - got me wondering about potential benefits of TF4 / TF5

I process HP5/FP4 in DDX & use a water stop bath & Ilford rapid fix
(On rare occasion use Tmax or Foma film)

Is there any benefit to switching to TF4 or TF5?

I'm still setting up my darkroom - so have not resumed printing yet,
but thinking of using Ilford Multigrade Developer.
Would I need to use a stop bath?

Used to use Dektol & D76
I prefer liquid chemistry.

Thanks in advance!

Serge

-All three are rapid fixers based on ammonium thiosulfate
-All three are buffered to be compatible with acid stop baths
-All three are non-hardening fixers

Ilford Rapid Fixer is mildly acidic
TF-5 is neutral
TF-4 is alkaline

-A neutral or alkaline fixer will not bleach silver and will be less difficult to wash if fixing times are much longer than recommended
-A neutral or alkaline fixer will have a longer shelf life than an acidic fixer
-A neutral or alkaline fixer will tend to wash somewhat faster although this is frequently exaggerated
-The closer the pH is to neutral, the less odour the fixer will tend to have

All things being equal, TF-5 is therefore somewhat more ideal than the other two, and it is easier to mix than TF-4. From a personal perspective I don’t bother with formulary products and just use Ilford.

[monochromeFan]

Just use ilford.. reliability, consistency, and well its comes it rather nice containers that match so well with other things like rodinal...

And ive never thought much of fixer guidelines... "till completion" can mean so many things..

[paulbarden]

And ive never thought much of fixer guidelines... "till completion" can mean so many things..

No, it doesn't. It means a very specific thing that is knowable, measurable, applicable.

[Drew Wiley]

If you value your time and the amount of water consumption during washing, TF4 and TF5 make a lot of sense. I long standardized on TF4 for both film and paper, but have since switched to TF5 mainly due to the fact it doesn't settle in the jugs and need aggressive stirring like TF4 did. The only downside to these "Archival fixers" is their greater expense. They're not intended for reuse. I mix only enough at a time for a single day's session.

[Ulophot]

I switched to TF5 from Ilford Rapid after hearing many positive comments about it. Since I bleach prints sometimes, the lower tendency to bleach delicate highlight detail appealed. So did the shorter wash time, but, although I have not conducted a rigorous test, it would be a pain, because my workflow/wash-setup is such that it would be expensive to do. One recent test to see how 15 minutes of washing fared without the use of a washing aid, discouraged me. For my situation, I am far more confident in using wash aid and then washing the prints through 5 changes of water or more over a half hour or so.

For any interested, I typically print one or two images in a session of 5-6 hours including toning and wash. Most of the time is evaluating prints as I refine my procedure on a given image, which may involve special cutouts for dodging or burning, or even a mask. I try to economize on paper during pre-proof and pre-final prints. Often I'll make 6-9 on-the-ways before settling on a final procedure, which, depending on the image's importance, my energy level, and the hour, may be realized in only a few prints, rarely more than four -- especially with 11x14s. I'm neither that good nor that rich.

So, the proof will have been in the water bath for several hours or more with new prints (rinsed) from the fixer coming in periodically. The finals may have come in during the last half hour. At this point, they have only had Fix A. Running water is periodic, with occasional dumps and refills.

Fix B of contacts (if any), proofs, and finals, and any prints reserved for a toning test, then get another water refresh. I set up Fix B, toner, and half-strength wash aid; fix proof(s)/contact(s) without toning; fix and directly tone the finals, give them a few minutes of agitation in the wash aid, then to running water. Fresh, full strength wash aid is next for 10 minutes, then the wash sequence.

[bmikiten]

I use TF-4 when using Pyro developers as it doesn't affect the staining. I have been using it for years due to the lack of a need for a stop bath, hypo-clear or super long washes. Water is an issue for me so those are important features. I've always been happy with Photographer's Formulary and never had any issues with their service or products. I have shelves of it in my darkroom.

[Fred L]

...They're not intended for reuse. I mix only enough at a time for a single day's session.

TF-5 is the only fixer I use for film and print as well, I do however mix up enough for several film runs. Curious why you mention that it's not meant for reuse Drew ? I'm going by PF's capacity numbers (and always stop short of them). For prints, it's one and done. I haven't seen any issues with my film after reusing fixer over multiple sessions, as long as it's within stated capacities.


thanks

[jp]

TF5 is very reusable. A typical empirical method for testing it before re-use is to put a small scrap of film in and when it takes twice as long to clear as when fresh, it's done.