Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Tele-Xenar HM 600/8 800/11

[hypermanual]

Hello everyone,

While browsing stuff on eBay and searching for a reasonably priced Super Symmar HM, I have found this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/39498428840...EAAOSw3a9j58TM

It's an APO-Tele-Xenar HM convertible lens with 600/8 and 800/11 options. It has a blue ring typical for HM series of lenses from Schneider.

I have failed to find much info about this kind of lens. I found that Schneider used to make non-convertible 400mm/5.6 and 800mm/12 APO Tele Xenar HMs, with distinct light gray colored front (and the blue ring). Most recent Schneider's lens catalog has an APO Tele Xenar convertible lens, but it's 600mm/9 and 800/12, so slightly slower than ones from the above link, and without HM designation.

Has anyone here ever seen (and maybe used) such lens like that blue ringed Schneider convertible tele? I'm curious about how it performs and how rare it is.

[arri]

I contacted the seller and is is a prototype lens or only a handful of it were made.
It seems that when the 11/800mm is screwed in the front and the 600mm in the rear you have the 800mm with f/11
When the 600mm ist srewed in the front and the 800mm in the rear you have a 600mm lens.

I never hear anything of this lens and I never saw it before, very interesting.

I have the unique Schneider prototypes made in the 1950th, all tele lenses, the first ever made Tele Arton lenses but this offer beats everything.

[Mark J]

This is interesting.
This late brochure shows two I was familiar with, the f/9 600 and f/12 800
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02090/02090.pdf
and yes, it's the rear component ( the front is common ) that is changed.
Let me see if i can find anything else in my archive in the next day or two.
I suspect sales on these would have been very limited, even for the production versions.

[rawitz]

I contacted the seller and is is a prototype lens or only a handful of it were made.
It seems that when the 11/800mm is screwed in the front and the 600mm in the rear you have the 800mm with f/11

Yes it seems to be a intermediate prototype between the 800mm/12 APO Tele Xenar HM and the later Apo Tele Xenar 600/800 convertible lens.
But I doubt that reversing the lens elements you get a 600mm or 800mm lens. Every telephoto-lens-construction has a positive front lens and a negative rear lens group, which cannot be reversed in a new lens.
I presume the ebay seller has the two rear lenses for 600mm and 80mm and the front lens is missing, if there is no third lens element.

Post: In the lens description there are 3 lens elements, in the pics I only see 2, presumly not correctly mounted ...

regards
Rainer

[Mark J]

I need to look again, but the front will be common, and hence labeled with both focal lengths.

I suspect that this is more or less the same lens design in both cases, in one case designated 'HM' and then later 'Apo'.
They would not have brought out a long telephoto in this era using normal dispersion glass.

[rawitz]

I need to look again, but the front will be common, and hence labeled with both focal lengths.

I suspect that this is more or less the same lens design in both cases, in one case designated 'HM' and then later 'Apo'.
They would not have brought out a long telephoto in this era using normal dispersion glass.

I have the early Apo Tele Xenar 12/800 and the late Apo Tele Xenar Convertible 600/800, but only the 600 rear element. The front lens element of both lenses is much larger than the "intermediate" lens, so the lens design is not the same. The lens design here is more compact like the Nikkor T ED 600/800 convertible lens, as if the ImageCircle is reduced like the Nikkor IC of 300mm, while the other "big" Apo Schneiders have both 500mm IC. But I have specs of both early/late lenses, but not of the intermediate lens, if there are any.

regards
Rainer

[Mark J]

OK, wow, so this is more complicated than i thought.
There are three eras of these lenses, then ?
What Hypermanual is showing in the link, is that the 'intermediate' lens ?

[rawitz]

To complicate a bit more. The Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Tele-Xenar HM 600/8 800/11 (Hypermanual) according to serial no. was manufactured in 1986. My Apo Tele Xenar 12/800 and the later Apo Tele Xenar Convertible 600/800 were manufactured in 1999 and 2002.
So the HM lens is not a "intermediate" prototype lens, but a "pre" prototype to the later lenses. I cannot find any infos in the Schneider site or old catalogs about this lens.

[Mark J]

I might be able to get some extra info from my contact at S-K.

[acrobatic_citron]

Is anyone willing to pay that much for it? Cant be many historical purchases to go off to price