hello here

[monochromeFan]

Bored person with many questions.

lI started shooting color film, in 2019. And when the cost i paid at that time to purchase film, mail it to a lab, and pay for the development and then return postage equaled the price of a used digital camera at BH... i bought one and stopped using color film. Sure i have some in a commercial freezer.. but i never see myself using it.

So i did the digital thing, thought i was happy and kept going. I tried the monochrome setting, was unhappy. Dusted my film cameras off and started shooting black and white. Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

[Duolab123]

Bored person with many questions.

lI started shooting color film, in 2019. And when the cost i paid at that time to purchase film, mail it to a lab, and pay for the development and then return postage equaled the price of a used digital camera at BH... i bought one and stopped using color film. Sure i have some in a commercial freezer.. but i never see myself using it.

So i did the digital thing, thought i was happy and kept going. I tried the monochrome setting, was unhappy. Dusted my film cameras off and started shooting black and white. Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

Welcome to the large format photography forum. Lots of information here. Welcome!

[Tin Can]

My vision has been very poor since birth

I did not speak until 4

We all differ

joy is art

[jnantz]

Bored person with many questions.

<...> Unfortunately i didnt have much to go with for education in film. Most of the old books you can find online for free were written in an era where concise was a dirty word.

not free but found on the auction site or the big bookstore ( for not too much scratch ) you might look for the Henry Horenstein book called basic black and white photography. I wouldn't bother with the zone system or any of that, just get used to learning how your use of a camera to control the light hitting the film works, and how developing the negative changes depending on the exposure and how you develop the film. if you have a 35mm camera, you can do this easy by bracketing exposure on a handful of short rolls, and then bracketing development to see how your negatives scan and print ( or print in a darkroom ). the Horenstein book also includes photographs of typical mistakes made so you can ID and fix what you did wrong. photography has never really been concise, it's forgiving ... that's the beauty of it.

[monochromeFan]

not free but found on the auction site or the big bookstore ( for not too much scratch ) you might look for the Henry Horenstein book called basic black and white photography. I wouldn't bother with the zone system or any of that, just get used to learning how your use of a camera to control the light hitting the film works, and how developing the negative changes depending on the exposure and how you develop the film. if you have a 35mm camera, you can do this easy by bracketing exposure on a handful of short rolls, and then bracketing development to see how your negatives scan and print ( or print in a darkroom ). the Horenstein book also includes photographs of typical mistakes made so you can ID and fix what you did wrong. photography has never really been concise, it's forgiving ... that's the beauty of it.

I do own the Horenstien book, the only good thing about it is the section of bad negative problems. The causes he states, are relatively spot on, but i have found similar defects in negatives caused by other things, all learning.

That book, and the David Vestal book i feel are the main causes of the problems i have had with my black and white photography. The more i rely on horenstein, the WORSE my negatives turn out.. and the more i follow vestals advice, the negatives just dont do well in scenes with major differences between hi lites and shadows.

[Joseph Kashi]

I do own the Horenstien book, the only good thing about it is the section of bad negative problems. The causes he states, are relatively spot on, but i have found similar defects in negatives caused by other things, all learning.

That book, and the David Vestal book i feel are the main causes of the problems i have had with my black and white photography. The more i rely on horenstein, the WORSE my negatives turn out.. and the more i follow vestals advice, the negatives just dont do well in scenes with major differences between hi lites and shadows.

I took a weekend workshop with Mr. Horenstein some years ago and he told the rather humorous story about how his book evolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised to hear that you are having difficulty with your negatives. In any event, the materials upon which the book was based are not really available anymore. That would similarly affect how current the advice might be.

[monochromeFan]

I took a weekend workshop with Mr. Horenstein some years ago and he told the rather humorous story about how his book evolved very quickly, so I'm not surprised to hear that you are having difficulty with your negatives. In any event, the materials upon which the book was based are not really available anymore. That would similarly affect how current the advice might be.

If the materials the book is based upon are not really available anymore, why is it such a popular suggestion to people trying to learn film? Its sort of like telling someone to learn to drive a manual transmission by driving a Model A Ford....

[jnantz]

If the materials the book is based upon are not really available anymore, why is it such a popular suggestion to people trying to learn film? Its sort of like telling someone to learn to drive a manual transmission by driving a Model A Ford....

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sorry for being so clueless ( and for seeming snarky ). I was just thumbing through my copy, what are the materials that aren't available anymore, and the bad advice he gives? generally speaking the use of film, paper light and photo chemistry ( and a camera ) is what his book teaches, and these materials seem to be available ...nothing has really changed regarding how they work ( for the last 100+ years ). the book is what a lot of people suggest because its pretty straightforward and every high school and college photo department used to use this book as a beginner's how-to manual for photo 1 and 2 classes for decades. I guess the difference is when it is/was a manual for a class, the teachers were always there and answered any questions when they come up... and students are all using the same film 35mm manual cameras, rc paper and probably sprint chemistry, not pyro developer or 90 year old crystalized rodinal, glass plates from 1900, or something moldy 1960s tri-x and poly contrast RC paper found for cheeps in a 2nd hand shop and a camera whose shutter hasnt' been CLAd since purchase from someone cleaning out an estate sale.. and sadly the only way to get questions answered is long distance via text+email ...
there's a lot of stuff on the internet ( videos &c ) people publish that is really unhelpful and unnecessary and overcomplicate what seems to be a simple process ... usually bracketing and test strips and making a print and viewing it is all one needs to do ( which seems to be what my copy talks about ) not overly complicated log charts and densitometry work to see if the black is really dark enough black, and heady zone system stuff ..

if your local area has a photo class at a community college it would probably worth its weight in gold to go and take a hands on class with a teacher who can answer any questions you may have in real-time. or better yet, if you have found a photographer online whose work you admire ( who does well what you want to do ) maybe contact them via email and see if they will give you a 1 on 1 workshop to help you get over some of the early stumbling blocks you have encountered .. who knows maybe it is just 1 or 2 tiny things you are doing wrong that you haven't noticed you are doing, and when you realize it you'll have an "AH HA" moment and be doing what you want a little bit better ..

[monochromeFan]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sorry for being so clueless ( and for seeming snarky ). I was just thumbing through my copy, what are the materials that aren't available anymore, and the bad advice he gives? generally speaking the use of film, paper light and photo chemistry ( and a camera ) is what his book teaches, and these materials seem to be available ...nothing has really changed regarding how they work ( for the last 100+ years ). the book is what a lot of people suggest because its pretty straightforward and every high school and college photo department used to use this book as a beginner's how-to manual for photo 1 and 2 classes for decades. I guess the difference is when it is/was a manual for a class, the teachers were always there and answered any questions when they come up... and students are all using the same film 35mm manual cameras, rc paper and probably sprint chemistry, not pyro developer or 90 year old crystalized rodinal, glass plates from 1900, or something moldy 1960s tri-x and poly contrast RC paper found for cheeps in a 2nd hand shop and a camera whose shutter hasnt' been CLAd since purchase from someone cleaning out an estate sale.. and sadly the only way to get questions answered is long distance via text+email ...
there's a lot of stuff on the internet ( videos &c ) people publish that is really unhelpful and unnecessary and overcomplicate what seems to be a simple process ... usually bracketing and test strips and making a print and viewing it is all one needs to do ( which seems to be what my copy talks about ) not overly complicated log charts and densitometry work to see if the black is really dark enough black, and heady zone system stuff ..

if your local area has a photo class at a community college it would probably worth its weight in gold to go and take a hands on class with a teacher who can answer any questions you may have in real-time. or better yet, if you have found a photographer online whose work you admire ( who does well what you want to do ) maybe contact them via email and see if they will give you a 1 on 1 workshop to help you get over some of the early stumbling blocks you have encountered .. who knows maybe it is just 1 or 2 tiny things you are doing wrong that you haven't noticed you are doing, and when you realize it you'll have an "AH HA" moment and be doing what you want a little bit better ..

The educational system is not worthwhile where i live everythign i can find is DIGITAL... and the ones claiming to teach film all list themselves as "been teaching photographer for 10+ years and have a college degree in photography" but they list their personal skill level as BEGINNER...

[jnantz]

The educational system is not worthwhile where i live everythign i can find is DIGITAL... and the ones claiming to teach film all list themselves as "been teaching photographer for 10+ years and have a college degree in photography" but they list their personal skill level as BEGINNER...

f you have a mini lab or photo store near you maybe they offer weekend classes or know people that do. I think on the harman tech / Ilford website and Emulsive there is a listing of all the film labs. there might also be a listing for a community darkroom in your area as well.