Help Wanted: Camera with wide-angle lens to re-photograph 1920s Postcards

[Dan Fromm]

Graflex made 2x3 Graflex and Speed Graphic cameras that easily accommodated different, interchangeable lenses.

A1, I don't agree with you about 2x3 Graflex SLRs. They can't use short lenses 'cos there are no retrofocus lenses for them. Their focusing travel is limited. Graphics -- don't forget the Century and Crown -- are much more polyvalent. The shortest focal length that covers 2x3 and will work on a 2x3 Speed is a little under 60 mm. A 35 will work on a Century or Crown. I have one such.

I have a 2x3 RB Ser. B that I used as the basis of a "Baby Bertha". A really long lens camera. The project failed due to vignetting by the mirror box. With lenses ~250 mm and longer Baby was effectively a 6x6 camera.

[Tin Can]

Some olde camera camera with a a few lens adapters, both telephoto and closeup

I did a study of the Calling Cards, Cabinet cards,and i forget the last size some years ago on this forum

I am sure it is not easy to find

[AuditorOne]

A1, I don't agree with you about 2x3 Graflex SLRs. They can't use short lenses 'cos there are no retrofocus lenses for them. Their focusing travel is limited. Graphics -- don't forget the Century and Crown -- are much more polyvalent. The shortest focal length that covers 2x3 and will work on a 2x3 Speed is a little under 60 mm. A 35 will work on a Century or Crown. I have one such.

I have a 2x3 RB Ser. B that I used as the basis of a "Baby Bertha". A really long lens camera. The project failed due to vignetting by the mirror box. With lenses ~250 mm and longer Baby was effectively a 6x6 camera.

Thanks Dan. Never tried wide angle on mine. I do have a 10 inch telephoto that works, and of course the 127mm Ektar, so I thought it might work.

EDIT - Of course that 10 inch telephoto may be for my 2x3 Speed. Can't remember off hand.

[Dan Fromm]

EDIT - Of course that 10 inch telephoto may be for my 2x3 Speed. Can't remember off hand.

It will work. The 10"/5.6 TeleOptar (= TeleRaptar) was the longest standard issue for 2x3 Graphics. FWIW, the longest lens I'm aware of that fits comfortably on a 2x3 Speed (Pacemaker, I never tried it on a Miniature) is the 12"/4 TTH Telephoto as fitted to Vinten F.95, AGI F. 134 and F. 139 aerial cameras. These cameras shoot 6x6, the lens nearly covers 4x5. Needs a small crutch to support it.

[xkaes]

Thanks Xkaes! The project calls for authentic lenses so only if I could find a matching close-up filter made a hundred years ago, I can use it.

Do you have to use authentic film as well?

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks Xkaes! The project calls for authentic lenses so only if I could find a matching close-up filter made a hundred years ago, I can use it.

On the one hand, there's no disputing tastes. On the other, this is silly. There's a law of nature, much disputed by the bokum boyz, who carry on about lenses' signatures, to the effect that in blind tests no one can reliably tell which lens was used to take a picture.

If you want the same view on 6x9 as you'd get on 35 mm still with a 40 mm lens shooting from the same position, use a 100 mm lens. The two see very nearly the same.

More seriously, do you know what equipment etc. was used to shoot the postcards' images you're working from? Also, where are you located?

And are you acquainted with the #3A Folding Pocket Kodaks? These cameras shot 3.5" x 5.5" negatives on glass plates, sheet film or #122 roll film, depending on the version. These could be contact printed on postcard sized paper. In fact EKCo sold paper with postcard markings printed on the back. FPKs were all fixed lens cameras with a variety of lenses in a variety of shutters. I've harvested really nice uncoated f/6.3 Tessars in B&L Compound shutters from them. I mention this because, image circle aside, these lenses shoot as well as newer designs with good coating.

[MKVII]

Do you have to use authentic film as well?

Yes, it sounds terribly puritan and unpractical, but the challenge is to keep all variables constant to visually isolate the effect time had on the specific location.

I was lucky enough to source some expired 120 roll film from Germany which I succesfully exposed and developed. To keep the cost down and keep shooting I've now shifted to Ilford Ortho Plus, an orthocromatic film which is less sensitive to red and green. The photo's on many of the postcards I have, are clearly taken on orthochromatic film. In the meantime I'm still on the look out for batches of film expired 100 years ago.

[MKVII]

On the one hand, there's no disputing tastes. On the other, this is silly. There's a law of nature, much disputed by the bokum boyz, who carry on about lenses' signatures, to the effect that in blind tests no one can reliably tell which lens was used to take a picture.

Indeed, the emphasis on authentic equipment in my project leans more towards a philosophical aspect than a technical one. In practice, I primarily observe the difference between lenses with and without coating and how sharp they render.

If you want the same view on 6x9 as you'd get on 35 mm still with a 40 mm lens shooting from the same position, use a 100 mm lens. The two see very nearly the same.

That's what I was hoping for, but unfortunately, in practice, the 105mm lens of my Voigtländer is still too long to rephotograph many old photo's from the same spot.

More seriously, do you know what equipment etc. was used to shoot the postcards' images you're working from? Also, where are you located?

I live in the Netherlands, and so far, my research into used equipment hasn't yielded anything concrete. The few museums that have postcards in their collection didn't have information about the photographers and their equipment. The same goes for the printing houses that issued the postcards. Even finding negatives has been unsuccessful. In that regard, 100 years ago is quite a long time.

And are you acquainted with the #3A Folding Pocket Kodaks? These cameras shot 3.5" x 5.5" negatives on glass plates, sheet film or #122 roll film, depending on the version. These could be contact printed on postcard sized paper. In fact EKCo sold paper with postcard markings printed on the back. FPKs were all fixed lens cameras with a variety of lenses in a variety of shutters. I've harvested really nice uncoated f/6.3 Tessars in B&L Compound shutters from them. I mention this because, image circle aside, these lenses shoot as well as newer designs with good coating.

Yes, I am definitely familiar with these cameras. In fact, one of the first posts I read on this forum was about repurposing lenses from these cameras for 4x5. However, I understood that these lenses are around 170mm and therefore too long for the angle of view I need.

[Vaughan]

In the meantime I'm still on the look out for batches of film expired 100 years ago.

100 year old film would be made on cellulose nitrate base, which is HIGHLY flammable and would have been disposed of as a hazardous waste many decades ago. It releases nitric acid as it decomposes and can self-combust. When it burns it is extremely difficult to extinguish: it was responsible for many cinema fires back in the day. You do NOT want ANY of this stuff.

The "safety film" base that replaced nitrate in 1930s was cellulose acetate: it's not much better. It's not as flammable, but it decomposes in humidity and heat to release acetic acid which further accelerates the decomposition of acetate film nearby (this is called vinegar syndrome). It can destroy an archive's entire film collection in a matter of years because the vinegar can travel far through the air conditioning system and catalyse the decomposition of other film. Unexposed rolls of this film too would have been disposed of decades ago.

Indeed, the emphasis on authentic equipment in my project leans more towards a philosophical aspect than a technical one.

You may need to do some research on the technical aspects of the film and equipment you want. You may have more luck reproducing the scenes on glass plate, which are being made again today albeit in small volumes, otherwise (though not historically correct) do it on wet plate.

[Tin Can]

I collect and use very old NOS coated glass plates the below are 120 years old and that image is 5X7

and Brand New, at least 2 suppliers

A 1880 NOS Glass Plate by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr

120 year old glass plate by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr