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Thread: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Feb 2020
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    Stockholm, Sweden
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    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Quote Originally Posted by SergioSanta View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Long time reader, 1st time "writer".
    I don't know if this is the correct "forum" or even if the question was already posted (I've made a quick search and didn't find anything).

    I'm taking the 1st steps with a "new" lens on my 4x5 SINAR norma.
    It's a beautiful Rodenstock 300mm f5.6 Sironar-N MC.
    (I'm used to wider lenses, as I work manly with architecture)

    I'v' already taken a few shots, but the last ones have an horrible vignetting.
    Attachment 242462

    I'm guessing this has to do with the image circle and bellows distance but I'm not quite sure how to solve it/ avoid it.
    I would like your expertise on the matter before doing a couple of tests, exploring the distance to subject en consequently bellows expansion.

    Thank you very much for your advice.
    I think it would be helpful if you could share a photo of your lens. The results are not normal

  2. #12
    Huub
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    213

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Aren't there different types of telephoto lenses for large format?
    In largeformat photography 'telephoto lens' has a slightly different meaning: it has nothing to do with the focal length in relation to the film format, but is used for lenses with a special constrution, making their focal flange distance much shorter then their focal length. This means they can be used on camera's that dont have enough bellows draw for the focal length. Well known examples are the Schneider tele-xenar and the Nikon tele-ed's.

  3. #13

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Hello and thanks for the replies,

    I bought the lens at a physical store where I go often.
    They work with all kind large format cameras and photographic procedures, collodion, film, super 8...
    The lens seems to be in order (see pics attached) but it's a simple lens without shutter.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-1.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	61.6 KB 
ID:	242503Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-2.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	46.9 KB 
ID:	242504Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-3.jpg 
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ID:	242505

    Keeping your remarks in mind I maybe found the problem. And its a bit of a stupid thing...
    This lens rear element is too wide for the SINAR copal DB shutter I work with (the 1st model, the green one).
    I've discussed the problem when I bought it and we, me and the guy from the store, came up with a solution to avoid buying another shutter, specifically for this lens.
    I've placed the shutter in between the two bellows...
    If this is the problem, either I buy another shutter or I use the bag bellows in place of the normal one an keep it as closed as possible.
    I don't have the camera with me, but here's a sketch.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sketch.jpg 
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ID:	242506

    Could this be the problem?

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    138

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    That's the problem.

    I don't know how close the rear element is to the shutter, but I'm surprised the obstruction couldn't be seen either by looking back through the lens towards the ground glass or on the ground glass itself?

    A modern 300mm lens on 4x5" should give very bright and even illumination.

  5. #15
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Jun 2015
    Location
    New Jersey was NYC
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    2,588

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Quote Originally Posted by SergioSanta View Post
    Hello and thanks for the replies,

    I bought the lens at a physical store where I go often.
    They work with all kind large format cameras and photographic procedures, collodion, film, super 8...
    The lens seems to be in order (see pics attached) but it's a simple lens without shutter.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-1.jpg 
Views:	55 
Size:	61.6 KB 
ID:	242503Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-2.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	46.9 KB 
ID:	242504Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-3.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	61.6 KB 
ID:	242505

    Keeping your remarks in mind I maybe found the problem. And its a bit of a stupid thing...
    This lens rear element is too wide for the SINAR copal DB shutter I work with (the 1st model, the green one).
    I've discussed the problem when I bought it and we, me and the guy from the store, came up with a solution to avoid buying another shutter, specifically for this lens.
    I've placed the shutter in between the two bellows...
    If this is the problem, either I buy another shutter or I use the bag bellows in place of the normal one an keep it as closed as possible.
    I don't have the camera with me, but here's a sketch.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sketch.jpg 
Views:	68 
Size:	37.4 KB 
ID:	242506

    Could this be the problem?
    Doesn't this lens taken #3 shutter?

  6. #16
    Small town, South Carolina, US
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    499

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Yes, it takes a #3 shutter - between the element groups not at the rear. Behind the lens the opening must be much larger than a #3 to avoid vignetting.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Collinsville, CT USA
    Posts
    2,332

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    One solution would be to find a "top hat" lensboard that would extend foward the lens enough for it to clear the Sinar shutter mounted on the back of the front standard. I would have thought that your Rodenstock 300mm f5.6 Sironar-N MC would have come that way for use with a Sinar shutter. Maybe the original lensboard was replaced with flat Sinar board???

  8. #18

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    I’m not sure, but it seems that lens board is already a kind of “top hat”?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sironar300-4.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	76.2 KB 
ID:	242507

    The SINAR shutter that I have has the same diameter as the rear element of the lens, so vignetting will always happen I suppose?
    I'm going to try with bag bellows an see if it works nonetheless.

    The alternative is to buy another shutter, but it seems to me that any other SINAR DB shutter will have the same problem... or the new models have bigger diameters?
    Can someone advise the best solution?
    These type of lenses sold without shutters must be paired with a specific SINAR DB.

    Sorry for all the questions, I'm a newbie trying to swim in open waters...

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Collinsville, CT USA
    Posts
    2,332

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    Quote Originally Posted by SergioSanta View Post
    I’m not sure, but it seems that lens board is already a kind of “top hat”?
    Correct but not "top hat" enough for the lens to clear the Sinar shutter when the shutter is mounted on the back of the front standard. I once owned a projection lens with the same problem and had to mount that lens in its "top hat" in the front of a "top hat" Sinar lensboard.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    833

    Re: Vignetting 4x5 300mm

    This is the lensboard you need. I recently bought one from him and it is excellent. I am going to make a monocular viewer out of it with the right lens.

    https://customcamerabuilding.com/en-...s/185271583212

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