Jobo Development and Drums

[tgtaylor]

If you are processing multiple sheets at a time, consider carefully Kodak's recommendation for processing time:

Using Full-Strength Developer
Choose the appropriate table for development times and
temperatures for using fresh, full-strength XTOL
Developer. The capacity of the full-strength developer with
normal, unreplenished processing is approximately 15 rolls
of 135-36 or 120 film (or the equivalent of 80 square inches
[516 square centimetres]) per litre, with time
compensation.
To process the maximum number of rolls of film per litre
of full-strength XTOL Developer, use time compensation
according to the table below. Discard the developer after
you process 15 rolls of film per litre.
*80 square inches = one 135-36 or 120 roll, four 4 x 5-inch sheets, or one 8 x
10-inch sheet; 160 square inches = one 220 roll.
STORAGE LIFE OF UNUSED SOLUTIONS
In Full, Tightly
Closed
Container
In Partially Filled,
Tightly Closed
Container
In Replenisher Tank
with Floating Lid
6 months At least 2 months
Indefinitely if new
solution is added to
replaced that used by
the processor
Time Compensation
for KODAK PROFESSIONAL XTOL Developer
Film Size Number of Rolls
(per litre)
Development-Time
Increase
135-36
or 120 rolls
(80 square
inches* or
equivalent)
1 to 5 Use normal
development time
6 to 10
Increase normal
development time by 15
percent
11 to 15
Increase adjusted
development time by 15
percen

I use both expert drums and the 2509N reels for 4x5 and both deliver the same results. However, it takes a little practice to load the 2509N with 6 sheets. What I did was to use 6 discarded negatives and practiced loading the reel in the light paying close attention to how the reel was loaded and how to check that it was inserted correctly. Then in the darkness to verify that I had the procedure down. I found that you must start from the inside slot and work your way out verifying that each sheet was spaced correctly and firmly before proceeding to the next sheet. Also, pay close attention to how to place the wings for circulation correctly and how to check.

Thomas

[wooserco]

One thing that I noticed: you're using a JOBO CPE2+ and asked about expert drums. The CPE2 series can't use the expert drums. You have to go up to the larger CPA or CPP processors to use the expert drums. The expert drums won't even connect to the lift (if you're using the lift on your CPE2+).

Also, I don't see where you mentioned what developer that you are using.

I just kind of skimmed over all of the posts, but these two items stood out to me.

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

wooserco: Thanks for close reading. I'm using the 2500 series of drums - both the 2 and the 5 series currently, but have wondered about the 3000 series and it's benefits. Yes, they don't fit my current machine so that's probably a non-starter. For developers, I'm using D23 and ID-11 mostly. And I was using them 1:1. Folks love Pyro but I've shied away on the handling requirements... and now that 510Pyro is a real "product".... maybe it will turn out I've been too concerned with the toxicity and environmental stuff, too and should just get over my heebie geebies. But I'm trying to resist the magic bullet approach and just refine the process.... and/or get it right before trying something else... as if user error weren't the problem but some inadequate material choice. There's always room to review my process to make sure I'm doing it "right".

For film I'm running mostly FP4 and HP5 but have some wild cards, too - all in the fridge.

Mostly, after some time off film shooting digital again, I'm returning and wanting to double cross my t's and dot my i's and see whether I need to button down a few things, and as you do so, your mind kind of gets jogged by a few thing I might have glossed over some time back, and wondering...."Was I doing that right?" and what not. And part of me is also wondering what and how I want to shoot.... whether I can dump some of my underused gear. And I'm remembering what pain to get 120 film on a Jobo reel.... and how easy by comparison the 2509 reels can be without the backing paper issues or sense that tracks on the Jobo reels just seem "too skinny". So much as I oderered a Horseman back for my 4X5 camera and I've been shooting some 120 in a beloved TLR, I'm just thinking as I'm doing this and this discussion is helping to sort out some details and cross check next steps.

Someone said we should all probably run C41 BEFORE B&W.... and I'll admit to agreeing with them that C41 is easier than B&W that seems to allow too many choices. C41 also clearly screams error when you blow it somewhere along the way. B&W.... your tone interpretation of the scene can kind lf make this harder. So that's what I'm about.... return to B&W and nail it. I've other questions about things like notching frame holders.... but asked Tim Layton about who's a fan of notching.... whether he notched his Chamonix holders and he admitted he didn't. I think their refined look and wood material choice makes that a daunting task to do just kind of willy nilly. Yet I'm still thinking some carefully drilled (by hand at slow speed) could work. But I haven't gone there.

[wooserco]

wooserco: Thanks for close reading. I'm using the 2500 series of drums - both the 2 and the 5 series currently, but have wondered about the 3000 series and it's benefits. Yes, they don't fit my current machine so that's probably a non-starter. For developers, I'm using D23 and ID-11 mostly. And I was using them 1:1. Folks love Pyro but I've shied away on the handling requirements... and now that 510Pyro is a real "product".... maybe it will turn out I've been too concerned with the toxicity and environmental stuff, too and should just get over my heebie geebies. But I'm trying to resist the magic bullet approach and just refine the process.... and/or get it right before trying something else... as if user error weren't the problem but some inadequate material choice. There's always room to review my process to make sure I'm doing it "right".

For film I'm running mostly FP4 and HP5 but have some wild cards, too - all in the fridge.

Mostly, after some time off film shooting digital again, I'm returning and wanting to double cross my t's and dot my i's and see whether I need to button down a few things, and as you do so, your mind kind of gets jogged by a few thing I might have glossed over some time back, and wondering...."Was I doing that right?" and what not. And part of me is also wondering what and how I want to shoot.... whether I can dump some of my underused gear. And I'm remembering what pain to get 120 film on a Jobo reel.... and how easy by comparison the 2509 reels can be without the backing paper issues or sense that tracks on the Jobo reels just seem "too skinny". So much as I oderered a Horseman back for my 4X5 camera and I've been shooting some 120 in a beloved TLR, I'm just thinking as I'm doing this and this discussion is helping to sort out some details and cross check next steps.

Someone said we should all probably run C41 BEFORE B&W.... and I'll admit to agreeing with them that C41 is easier than B&W that seems to allow too many choices. C41 also clearly screams error when you blow it somewhere along the way. B&W.... your tone interpretation of the scene can kind lf make this harder. So that's what I'm about.... return to B&W and nail it. I've other questions about things like notching frame holders.... but asked Tim Layton about who's a fan of notching.... whether he notched his Chamonix holders and he admitted he didn't. I think their refined look and wood material choice makes that a daunting task to do just kind of willy nilly. Yet I'm still thinking some carefully drilled (by hand at slow speed) could work. But I haven't gone there.

Wow, I've all but given up shooting color film. Just too costly for film. I am set up quite well to shoot and print in house digital color. Until COVID, I second shot weddings and did a few on my own. I found that I had more control keeping and printing everything in house.

Regarding the darkroom, I've fulfilled a childhood dream of having my own darkroom. I have a CPE2+ that I use to develop not only my 4x5 using the same equipment that you use, but also roll film and small format. I have three enlargers set up: one for each format. I could print RA4 if I chose to, but I'm not there yet. I have always used XTOL for my developer, and after my last batch of Kodak is gone, I'll probably switch to XT3.

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

C41 is easier than you think and saves a ton for color doing it yourself. I have a fridge full from some years back. But you're right that the prices are a bit daunting... likely because the relative cost today vs. the relative cost of old is harder to gauge than we think. Film was never cheap... and part of the reason we think of film as "slowing down" relates to how relatively expensive it was back in the day. As a 16-year-old, I shot an entire trip to England on three or four rolls of 35mm Kodachrome (which were lost when my folks moved). Five years ago I took my Rollieflex to France and shot a LOT of Portra 400. No regrets: the camera introduced me to a lot of former TLR shooters who introduced themselves over and over. Great camera! Today, I am realizing that the admonition to "just put film in the fridge" is a good one. Whether it's color or B&W, you won't regret it.

But FWIW, I got back into this hobby years ago to shoot B&W... my first love. I shoot film, but print with ink after scanning. So something suffers there. Much as I'd run through digital cameras one after another and sold them all off when I came back to film, like you, I realized digital comes in handy and picked up some Fuji's for the event photography I get roped into for my church. Family is mostly iPhone 13' series as the camera tends to intimidate them more than it should. If you have one, I highly recommend the ViewFinder app as really a good tool.

[wooserco]

MY problem shooting color and printing in the DR is this: I'm stone color blind. When shooting digital, I can rely on software to color correct. Printing color in the darkroom, I'm not sure. I have a color head for my Beseler 23CII and a JOBO, so processing isn't an issue. I was gifted a set of the Kodak color correction viewing filters, but I'd have to rely on my wife to judge.

Regarding the stone color blind statement: My opthilmologist did the test on me on my first visit. He stated that I was "textbook" color blind. My next appointment a year later, he had a collegue there to witness as he performed the test again. Same result.

So, probably no color darkroom printing for me, unless I can come across someone cleaning out a darkroom with chemicals and paper like I did with my B&W darkroom.

[Bormental]

I am using the 2500 series tanks with 2509n reels for B&W and C-41. Never had any problems with uneven development and I find them quick and easy to load. I cannot comment on the expert drums because I never used them.

The reason I selected the 2500-series instead of the larger drums is compactness. I didn't want yet another tank to occupy even more space in my laundry room. Being able to reuse the tank for 35mm, 120 and 4x5" (and mix formats in the same tank when developing) is valuable for me.

I've also struggled a bit with the minimum recommended volume of developer per area unit of film. So instead of my usual Xtol / ID-11, I've standardized on Ilfotec HC (HC-110 clone) because it offers wider range of working dilutions to control the amount of compensation / highlight compression. The additional bonus of extremely long shelf life doesn't hurt.

[EDIT] Here's a recent image developed using this method. I can't see how a larger drum could have made a difference.

[younghoon Kil]

[EDIT] Here's a recent image developed using this method. I can't see how a larger drum could have made a difference.

What an impressive result!
I'm curious about your B&W development process.

[roscoetuff-Skip Mersereau]

Had just seen that shot on an HP5 thread... and it is absolutely stunning. Love it. Thanks!