Some questions about diy 4x5

[Dotz0cat]

As I said over in the introductions forum, I am currently in the process of drawing up some plans for a diy 4x5 camera. There are still quite a few things I don't know about the design portion.

A little bit more about the design I am working on. (plans attached) I am going for a more boxy design, mainly so I don't have to taper my bellows. I am also hoping to make it quite symmetrical, so the front and rear frame can be interchanged. Also instead of folding up, I hope to make it able to be taken apart easily. I am going for a rack and pinon system over a monorail. However with how I am building it, it could likely be easily converted to a monorail. It is not shown in the plans, I hope to use dovetails for joining the frames together. I do have a few concerns about the design.

One of my concerns is about the back. Would 1/8in be thick enough or would I have to go for 1/4in? Another concern is about the bellows. How long should they be made? How long does that translate out to when flat? Also talking about bellows, is it possible to double up on the inner liner? How would that be joined if so?

This is still a work in progress, that is still going through changes. I will be learning a lot as I go on and make this, both about photography and woodworking.

[Dan Fromm]

Funny, your sketch looks like a monorail camera, not a flat bed, with a focusing rack. I'm all for the joy of tinkering, but you might be better off buying a used Cambo (friction focus, it works) or Sinar (not familiar enough with them to know how they focus). Both are relatively inexpensive and well-supported.

How you plan to get shift and swing isn't clear in the sketch.

If your goal is shooting 4x5 buying a camera will get you shooting soonest. If your goal is making your own camera, go for it.

[Michael Roberts]

I prefer 1/4" min thickness for camera backs. If it is to be removable or capable of reversing (landscape to portrait) then you'll need room to drill and install pins (unless you are planning to use a locking mechanism attached to the rear standard).

Can't help with the bellows. My advice on the bellows is to make a mock-up with kraft paper and paint it with black latex for testing the camera prior to making a "real" bellows.

You can dovetail your corners or not. With modern wood glues, it's not really necessary for strength.

I would also rethink the need for rack and pinion. Friction focusing works fine, you just need to make sure everything locks down properly.

I suggest you consider the benefits of triangulation for stability of both the rear and front standards (i.e., having an angled brace in addition to the vertical support. Compare Deardorff folding cameras to Kodak 2D or Korona rail designs.). This can be critically important if you will be photographing outdoors in windy conditions.

If you want to make your own bellows, starting with a square bellows is a good idea.

Keep working on your design, you'll get there. Making your own camera can be a very satisfying project.


My .02.

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...highlight=7x11

[Alan Townsend]

dotz,

I'm also working on a diy 4x5 not to different looking than you're drawing. I've been working on sub-assemblies and checking clearances as I go, so mine keeps changing all the time. I'm not in a big hurry to finish it, either. My reason for diy is that I can't buy one like I want, so have no choice. Also WANT to build it.

Mine started as a drop bed but wound up a fairly short monorail using a laminted 2x2 about 14 inches long for the rail. My frames are also identical, but smaller than yours, measuring 7x7 on the outside and 5 1/2 square on the inside using 3/4 X 1 1/2 softwood. My front standard is rigidly mounted to the rail with no movements. My rear standard has centered swings and tilts and is mounted to a rack and pinion I bought on amazon for $12.50. It has two different positions that it can be mounted in to cover the length of the rail properly for the lenses that I have.

I'm using 1/4-inch plywood for the film holder that has 3 layers that bolt together with small machine screws and nuts. I don't have a great looking drawing to share at this time. I don't think 1/8 in. thick would be thick enough. My film back is square, so it can be positioned either landscape or portrait mode using clamps that very firmly hold it against the rear frame.

My swing yoke mounts to the rack and pinion with a bolt that allows disassembly. The rail mounts to the front standard with a bolt that is easily removed, so the front and rear standards can also be pushed together for storage and packing for field use. In landscape mode, think about how you will remove the slide from the film holder. You need a way to do this. I simply have the film holder face about 3/4 inch behind the swing yoke arm which allows tilting about 20 degrees. Another way is to either slant the swing yoke (I don't see how you swing the rear, so think about the vertical members that hold the rear standard) arms backward or make them curved enough. You would need to add horizontal tabs or some other means to get the clearance to remove the slides in landscape mode.

I would suggest first looking at the lens or lenses you plan on using and figuring from there. With a 90mm or 135mm lens, just sliding it will not give very accurate focus, especially for the shorter lens. For sliders, a longer lens would work better. The film back needs to be quite strong to hold against inserting and removing film holders if you use a spring with bail or not. I use clamps instead but am a stickler on making everything rigid. My goal is for a lightweight camera for packing on hikes that covers rear movements only with the lenses I plan to use.

Good educational opportunity.

Have fun,

Alan Townsend

[Alan Townsend]

dotz,

I forgot about your bellows question. The bellows should be cut a fair amount longer than you think to allow attachment, movements and avoid stressing things. The bellows attachment is also critical. My frames will be mounted a maximum of 11 inches apart on the inside facing surfaces of the frames, and I am making them 18 inches long when flat. This also allows for the first fold or two to go underneath the mounting angles that I will use.

My bellows will match the frames being 5 1/2 inches inside and 7 inches outside. They will mount to the inner facing surfaces of the frames using stainless steel angle braces I got on Amazon. These are L-shaped flat pieces. This will clamp them down rigidly using wood screws to the frames rather than using glue like most people do. I've never seen a camera done like this, but it should work well.

My bellows is made from black posterboard and black duct tape I got at Walmart. My pleats are 3/4 inch. I cut the posterboard into sections 5 1/2 by 18 inches after marking with a ball point pen lines 3/4 inch apart. They are placed onto a work surface with 3/4 inch between them and clamped down with 1x2 boards spaced the tape width apart. Three layers of this tape become opaque. So one layer is applied on the outside, then one on the inside, then another outside taking care to not press down on the tape in-between the posterboard to keep it from sticking to the work surface. This is a variation of the way some guy on the internet built one using black cardboard and hockey tape. I also fold my pleats before taping together, which makes it easier in some ways and harder in others. After finishing edge taping and folding, the black duct tape is applied over the entire outside surface on the outside folds. Black electrical tape is placed on the inside surface on each outside fold, but not covering everywhere since flat black already.

This type of homemade bellows is cheap and fairly easy to make and should last a few years. Not needing to glue down makes it easier to replace when worn out.

regards,

Alan Townsend

[viktormac]

If you have any doubts or uncertainties, I suggest you check out Jon Grepstad's plan https://jongrepstad.com/building-a-large-format-camera/ for his 4x5 monorail cam. I think there's enough stuff to use as inspiration.
I built a camera myself using his plans and have been drawing my own, this time as a field camera.
Otherwise fingers crossed, it's a great experience and the joy of the first photo is indescribable.
My camera built is here: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjASaRZ

[Tin Can]

I am a big fan of Box cameras

No bellows needed

I have made a few, next a cute sliding box

and a Detective Camera

[wooserco]

I'm fairly new to the LF scene, so I'm curious: What, pray tell is a LF Detective Camera?

[Tin Can]

Police and others used a suitcase with hidden lens. Endless variations.

The spy cameras could be anywhere

My favorite is drop plate that used glass plates!

I'm fairly new to the LF scene, so I'm curious: What, pray tell is a LF Detective Camera?