Questions about two G-Claron's and a mystery (process?) lens

[nitroplait]

I picked up below lenses for a little pocket change - so little that I didn't put much thought into how to utilise them at the moment of purchase.
The seller didn't know anything other than he speculated that they likely was used for repro work, which sounds plausible.




Back at home; the internet was not as informative on the Schneider G-Claron lenses as I had expected.
It seems like Schneider-Kreuznach have deleted much of their legacy lens information from their website.

I wonder if anyone here can supplement with some knowledge on the following:

1. Right: Schneider-Kreuznach G-Claron 150/9, f/9-64. Front filter diameter 35.5 mm. Serial number 13 473 980. I found the following information: https://kamerastore.com/products/sch...laron-enlarger

It doesn't say much on potential use, but as near field optimised, I thought this perhaps could be used as an 4X5 enlarger lens?

2. Left: Schneider-Kreuznach G-Claron 240/9, f/9-64. Front filter diameter 52mm. Serial number: 13 426 145.

Based on this: https://kamerastore.com/products/sch...on-enlarger-13
The lens seems to be useable as a taking lens and possibly even allows mounting of a Copal #1 shutter. The lens in the link is said to be "glued" to an enlarger board. It is possible my lens is "glued" as well because when I apply medium force I cannot separate the front and rear.
I have never experienced "glued" in this manner before, though.

I imagine to use this as a taking lens on my 4X5 - I would be fine just mounting it to a lens board without shutter and use long "cap-exposures" with an ND filter if necessary.
I am guessing normal distance work will be OK even if the lens is optimised for near-field? (I don't do infinity landscape stuff).

Is there a way I could/should test if the distance between the front and rear parts of the lens are correctly spaced?
Visually it doesn't look to me like there is enough space for a Copal #1 shutter in the little space occupied by the enlarger board, so I am unsure what to make of that?

3. Center (more details in the photo below): Non branded single coated lens with font coated mirror behind the last element. 
I have no idea what this could have been used for.
If I screw it apart, there is a front group that can be separated from the rear element. A flashlight seems to indicate 3-4 elements altogether - 2-3 in the front and 1 in the rear. 
To my eyes it looks like half-a-lens which is terminated with the surface coated mirror,( which is held close to the rear element with a aluminium retaining ring). 

The front group seems very carefully aligned from the rear lens element with several paper-thin metal spacers.

Any idea what this lens could have been used for, and if there could be any practical application for general photographic purposes?

Anything that can shed a little light on these is much appreciated - thanks

I'd love to put these nicely made objects to good use.

[Mark J]

Both of the G-Clarons were available in shutter, and work very well from Infinity to 1:1 if stopped down. The 150 doesn't quite cover 4x5 at infinity, but does at closer distances.
Let me see if I can attach some datasheets, i recently received an extensive 'pack' of data on Schneider, which filled in some gaps in my collection.

Oops, looks like I only have the 150 and 270mm datasheets, not the 240.
I reckon you could get it via Internet Archive.
I will attach the 270 anyway.

150mm 9 G-Claron scheda MTF.pdf270mm 9 G-Claron scheda MTF.pdf

[jnantz]

hi nitroplait

this link has what you are looking for
https://web.archive.org/web/20040730...deroptics.com/

[Kevin Crisp]

They are both excellent lenses that should fit in Copal or Compur shutters. And not just for close ups. There is a ton of information on both on this website.

I beg to differ with Mark on coverage. The 150 mm version WILL cover 4X5 with much room to spare. I have used mine on 5X7 many times, including with quite a bit of front rise, and it covers fine when stopped down to f:22. After asking here if it would cover 4X10 and getting no answers I tried it and it did, barely.

The 240 will cover 8X10 with considerable room for movement. Internet lore has it that in the later production models, Schneider optimized them for infinity, but in truth they were always excellent at infinity when stopped down. Fred Picker of Zone VI did much to popularize them as general purpose lenses.

[Kevin Crisp]

The great camera eccentric site is still up and running. According to this Schneider brochure, the 150 g claron was considered an 8x10 lens: https://cameraeccentric.com/static/i...chneider_5.pdf

[Mark J]

I beg to differ with Mark on coverage. The 150 mm version WILL cover 4X5 with much room to spare. I have used mine on 5X7 many times, including with quite a bit of front rise, and it covers fine when stopped down to f:22. After asking here if it would cover 4X10 and getting no answers I tried it and it did, barely.

Sorry, you are dead right. I've been looking at so much in the context of 5x7" lately, i have 105mm ingrained in my brain !
So the 150 will almost cover 5x7 at infinity, and will at closer distances.
You'd have to go towards 1:1 to get it to cover 8x10 though ? The G-Claron's coverage is often quoted at 1:1 in the datasheets.

[Dan Fromm]

OP, G-Clarons were sold for use in process cameras. As has already been mentioned in this discussion, they were optimized for near distances -- that's where process cameras work -- but are very usable at all distances.

There were two design types. Early, 6 elements in 2 groups, dagor types. Later, six elements in four groups, plasmat types. Both of yours are plasmat types. There's an entry in "the list" that explains this and tells how to recognize the two types. If you don't know what the list is, please ask.

I've shot a 150/9 plasmat type G-Claron against two 150/9 Apo-Ronars on 2x3. Same emulsion, same subjects, same apertures, same exposure times (same shutter). The Apo-Ronars were better for my purposes on 2x3. A G-Claron, either type, covers a larger circle than an Apo-Ronar of the same focal length.

Process lenses typically open no wider than f/9. There are faster better lenses for enlarging.

[arri]

A few days ago I tested my 9/150mm G-CLaron lens in 18x24cm film size, this a little bit smaller than 8x10" (20x25cm)
The lens were focused to oo. I used f/45
No shift of swings.
The lens shows small dark corners but it shows that it has nearly 90° angle of view.
It is the Dagor typ G-Claron but the newer Plasmat style lens has a similar performance, I guess.
I used a xray film Fuji UM-MA

[Kevin Crisp]

The 150 g claron will cover 5X7 with a lot of room to spare. As in 1.5 to 2" of rise room to spare. There is nothing "almost" about it.

[Mark J]

Interesting - I see what you mean, in that the resolution fall-off is not really happening at the quoted 94.5mm radial at f/22 is it ? - it still looks good.
... although the datasheet only shows 3, 6 and 12 lp/mm.
Are you talking about 'cover' for contact prints or enlargements ?
I can see a purchase coming up at some point on this .....