Is Pyrocat HD a waist of time if you only have access to multigrade papers?

[Andy F]

Hi,

I am about to do some experiments with different film developers. I am looking forward to understanding how to use Pyrocat HD. I am trying to figure out when to use it but more importantly when not to use it. Am I right in understanding that the developer will cause highlights (ie clouds) to become muddy and that the mask it creates is similar to having a yellow filter on your enlarger while printing with VC papers. If this is true to people just use Pyrocat HD to scan into the computer.

Graded papers really don't even exist anymore so what am I missing. Do people mostly use it to lower the contrast on high contrast scenes and get detailed images on bright contrasty days. Can people let me know how they shoot with Pyrocat HD because I would like to know how to use it properly.

-Andrew

[gypsydog]

"Graded papers really don't even exist anymore" This statement is false!

[Michael R]

Andrew,

The short version is Pyrocat HD and most general purpose developers will work fine for whatever you need to do whether printing on VC papers, graded papers or scanning or whatever else. That old lower highlight contrast VC papers thing about staining developers is...(don't worry about it). Whichever developer you decide to use, you can use it for pretty much everything unless it is either highly specialized or poorly formulated nonsense.

Michael

[Andy F]

"Graded papers really don't even exist anymore" This statement is false!

Maybe I am wrong and I should not be so dismissive of the papers that are currently out there. I prefer to use fiber papers that are matte and not glossy with a cool tone. What would you suggest. I wonder what people use. Anything affordable?

[Michael R]

There aren't many graded papers for enlarging. Fomabrom is one. My suggestion would be to use VC papers anyway. They give you so much more control.

The only paper I know of that is cool in image colour right out of the box is Ilford Cooltone - however as far as I know it is only available in glossy unless you get the RC version which can be had in "pearl" finish which I always found ugly. Similar would be Kentmere - again RC and not really matte.

If you are set on matte FB and cool image tones I think your best bet is to add a cooling agent (Moersch makes one) to the print developer. Then you can use pretty much any FB paper so you'll have more VC matte choices. Foma, Ilford Classic, Ilford Warmtone.

Maybe I am wrong and I should not be so dismissive of the papers that are currently out there. I prefer to use fiber papers that are matte and not glossy with a cool tone. What would you suggest. I wonder what people use. Anything affordable?

[Corran]

I use Pyrocat HD for most of my film and make prints on VC papers or sometimes old Graded papers that I still have/find. There's absolutely no issues, assuming the usual well-exposed and developed image. Go make images/prints and be happy, and dial in whatever you need to do to make images you envision. You might not like Pyrocat (I didn't, for a long time, due to some early experiences) but it's certainly not a developer you "can't" use with standard / modern VC papers.

[Alan9940]

Andrew,

In general, staining formulas based on catechol pyrogallol, like Pyrocat HD, produce a brown(ish) stain vs the yellow/green stain of, say, PMK. All the formulas I've ever worked worked--and I've used quite a few--fall somewhere within this range of stain color. ABC Pyro, for example, in my experience produces such a subtle stain that you probably wouldn't know it has a stain, unless compared to a "normal" developed negative.

Anyway, popular theory has it that a yellow/green stained negative will tend to suppress highlights while the highlights remain unaffected by a brown stained negative. Personally, and after having printed many negatives on VC papers from both types of negatives I've never noticed an issue. Pyrocat HD and PMK are probably the most popular formulas around and each have an ardent fan base. You couldn't go wrong with either, IMO. But, if you decide on a staining formula make sure you follow good safety precautions!

[Oren Grad]

I am looking forward to understanding how to use Pyrocat HD. I am trying to figure out when to use it but more importantly when not to use it. Am I right in understanding that the developer will cause highlights (ie clouds) to become muddy and that the mask it creates is similar to having a yellow filter on your enlarger while printing with VC papers. If this is true to people just use Pyrocat HD to scan into the computer.

Graded papers really don't even exist anymore so what am I missing. Do people mostly use it to lower the contrast on high contrast scenes and get detailed images on bright contrasty days. Can people let me know how they shoot with Pyrocat HD because I would like to know how to use it properly.

Carl Weese has taken advantage of the staining properties of pyro developers to produce "switch-hitting" negatives that have sufficient density to make good prints in Pt/Pd but also work well with variable-contrast silver papers. He had an article on this in the old Photo Techniques magazine, I believe in the Nov/Dec 1999 issue.

[Larry Gebhardt]

The stain is roughly proportional to the density of the developed silver in the film. The stain is brown and probably blocks blue and green light slightly differently, which would affect contrast on VC papers. But since the stain is proportional to image density once you figure out your development times for a contrast range that will have taken the stain into account. It's likely that a graded paper and a VC paper will have different effective grades for a particular negative, but I haven't tested it. It's also possible your graded filters may not have exactly the same contrast effect as if you were using a non stained negative. Having some density made up of stain and not silver results in slightly less grainy images, which is nice for smaller formats.

[nolindan]

The effect of pyro stain on VC paper contrast seems to be nil. For an interminable argument on the point see: https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...ontrast.73866/

However, the ratio of pyro stain to silver density does seem to vary with silver density. This can affect effective paper contrast but the effect will be there for all grades of VC filtration/paper and all for graded papers.

--

BTW, the "waist of time" did coincide with the development of photography - ~1850-1915; a possible area of future study "Photography and corsets, who influenced who."