Matching Goerz Dagor lenses - A two lens kit for 8x10”

[Tim V]

Thanks again, guys.

What's the difference between a Carl Zeiss Jena Gorez Dagor, and say the Am Opt. Co. Goerz Dagor? Am I correct in thinking the Carl Zeiss version is the same, perhaps also single coated? And which versions of the Berlin Dagor are considered of less quality?

[David Lindquist]

Thanks again, guys.

What's the difference between a Carl Zeiss Jena Gorez Dagor, and say the Am Opt. Co. Goerz Dagor? Am I correct in thinking the Carl Zeiss version is the same, perhaps also single coated? And which versions of the Berlin Dagor are considered of less quality?

To be clear, the company known as C.P. Goerz American Optical Company was in no way connected with the company, American Optical Company (or American Optical) which today is mostly known for their sun glasses.

C.P. Goerz American Optical Company started in the late 19th century as the representative in the US of C.P. Goerz, Berlin. Not sure when they started manufacturing the Dagor in this country.

C.P. Goerz American Optical Company changed their name to Goerz Optical Company, Inc. in 1964. This is based on Goerz literature dated earlier in that year that used the C.P. Goerz A.O.C. name and later in that year that used the Goerz Optical Co. name. We can thank Kerry Thalmann for this information.

The Dagors made by Carl Zeiss Jena before WWII would not have been coated. CZJ did make Dagors after WWII but not in great numbers. Safe to say these would have been single coated. I don't think any of these were mounted in shutters by the factory.

May have more later, have to dig through my stuff.

The term "Berlin Dagor" may mean different things to different people and to me is a potential can of worms....

Adding this from some on-line sources: The US entity began lens production in 1902 and got the name "C.P. Goerz American Optical Company" in 1905.

David

[Greg]

more information at
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...p/t-42491.html
https://www.largeformatphotography.i.../t-150030.html
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...over-the-years

[David Lindquist]

More on Carl Zeiss Jena Dagors. In 1926 the C.P. Goerz company of Berlin merged with ICA, Contessa-Nettal and Ernemann forming Zeiss Ikon. This entity was controlled by the Carl Zeiss Foundation and lens production by Goerz ceased and Carl Zeiss Jena began making Dagors. The earliest production batch of the Dagor shown in Hartmut Thiele's Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena was started in January 1928. Looking at the "Design Calculation" dates in Thiele it looks like in some cases CZJ continued using C.P. Goerz's calculations and in other cases they did a re-calculation.

So fair to say the CZJ and the US made Dagors are similar but not identical. A circa 1935 Carl Zeiss Jena catalogue shows the 21 cm f/6.8 Dagor covered 12 1/2 inches "at small stops". A circa 1960's Goerz Optical Co. brochure shows the 8 1/4 inch f/6.8 Dagor covered 11.4 inches at f/16 and 15.6 inches at f/45.

David

[Hugo Zhang]

I have to say Zeiss Dagor f/9 lenses are very nice. The 21cm version has an 18 inch image circle at small stops.

[Tim V]

Thanks for the links and commentary, guys!

I've been in the darkroom, printing a lot these last few weeks and have decided that I really love the look of my C.P. Goerz Am. Opt. Co. 12" Dagor – it's pretty beaten up and the glass certainly isn't amazing, but the results speak for themselves. Beautiful, soft rendering (relatively low contrast) but excellent detail. The G-Claron (Dagor) 210mm is great too, but a bit harder in the shadows. Could just be the idiosyncrasies of my copies, but it's fun to analyse none the less. I'm not one for the pursuit of technical perfection in these things, rather value a special kind of character – as long as it doesn't compromise flexibility. I think I'll slowly trudge my way to a good, three lens Dagor kit of same or similar vintage. 210mm / 240mm / 275mm. Done...

[Dan Fromm]

Tim, Goerz and, for a time, Zeiss are not the only makers who produced dagor type lenses. Numerous manufacturers made 6/2 and even 8/2 double anastigmats before the first World War. The number of makers producing these lenses fell off sharply after the war. Berthiot persisted for a short while after WW II -- look for Eurygraphes and Perigraphes, not all of which will fit in modern shutters -- and Boyer made Beryls until 1982, when the firm closed. Beryls are, IMO, much undervalued and are good alternatives to Goerz Dagors. They don't have Dagors' cachet. So what?

[Tim V]

Yes, lots of great options out there. Many at reasonable prices it seems. I just want a two or three lens kit that renders consistently across the board to help keep things consistent, especially at the printing stage.