Very wide angles for Horseman 45 FA usability

[xonefs]

So I got my Horseman 45 Fa which I'm happy with. I picked up a Rodenston grandagon 65mm 4.5 for the wide end. It works, but has some challenges. The front rails are in the bottom of the frame and it needs some front rise to clear them. I could live with that but the movements are pretty limited by the bellows with doing even more rise like I would like. it would be much more preferable if I could drop the bed, but with the 65 this is not an option as it can't reach infinity focus with the bed dropped as the standard would need to be off the rails.

I'm wondering does anyone use a 75 with it and can comment on usability? I had read you can drop the bed with a 75 with the standard half hanging off the rails and focus at infinity but I'm curious if it is much more useable in general and anyone can comment on movements with a 75.

[MartyNL]

Hi, is your lens on a flat or sunken lensboard?

[Sal Santamaura]

I have a 75mm f/4.5 Nikkor SW that works well on the moveable rails of my Horseman FA. See this page

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...s/LF4x5in.html

for modern 75s that might be compatible too. One of the parameters not included is flange-focal distance (FFD). I don't know whether any of those other lenses have shorter FFDs which might drive them into the camera's box, thereby creating the same issues you're having with your 65. Separate research will be necessary to address that possibility.

[Axelwik]

A 10mm recessed lens board should move the front standard out enough to make it work as the 75 described above by Santamaura.

[xkaes]

... I don't know whether any of those other lenses have shorter FFDs which might drive them into the camera's box, thereby creating the same issues you're having with your 65. Separate research will be necessary to address that possibility.

Most very wide lenses have flange focal lengths substantially longer than their optical focal length. For example, the Fujinon 75mm lenses have FFL from 82-85mm, and their 65mm lenses have FFL from 71-73mm -- that +10-15% of the optical FL. That doesn't sound like much, but it can make a big difference -- with or without a recessed lensboard.

[xonefs]

A 10mm recessed lens board should move the front standard out enough to make it work as the 75 described above by Santamaura.

recessed lens boards are not available for the 45FA. it uses an 80x80mm lens board so there is really no room.

I have heard vague mentions of a mythical recessed board for it but no evidence it has ever existed or how that would even work. not sure how even a copal 0 could fit in there with controls. they are certainly not available to buy anywhere.

[Sal Santamaura]

recessed lens boards are not available for the 45FA. it uses an 80x80mm lens board so there is really no room.

I have heard vague mentions of a mythical recessed board for it but no evidence it has ever existed or how that would even work. not sure how even a copal 0 could fit in there with controls. they are certainly not available to buy anywhere.

If memory serves, it was necessary to modify controls so they were operable from forward of the recessed shutter body.

A 10mm recessed lens board should move the front standard out enough to make it work as the 75 described above by Santamaura.

Please refer us to a source for an 80mm square Horseman field camera recessed lens board, 10mm or any other depth, on which to mount a Copal 0 shutter. I tried for decades to source one without success. By the time I became aware that Bob Eskridge had some (7mm) custom-made ones available, he'd sold out.

Most very wide lenses have flange focal lengths substantially longer than their optical focal length. For example, the Fujinon 75mm lenses have FFL from 82-85mm, and their 65mm lenses have FFL from 71-73mm -- that +10-15% of the optical FL. That doesn't sound like much, but it can make a big difference -- with or without a recessed lensboard.

Among 75mm lenses listed on the page I linked to above, here are are their flange focal lengths:

• Nikkor 75mm f/4.5 SW: 81.3mm
• Fujinon 75mm f/4.5 SWD: 85.1mm
• Schneider 75mm f/5.6 Super Angulon: 82.4mm
• Rodenstock 75mm f/6.8 Grandagon N: 79mm
• Rodenstock 75mm f/4.5 Grandagon N: 82mm

Thus, it seems that any of them other than the slower Rodenstock should be as or more functional on a Horseman FA than my Nikkor SW is. The Fujinon would appear to be the most comfortable to use with movements, given its substantially longer flange focal distance.

[Axelwik]

recessed lens boards are not available for the 45FA. it uses an 80x80mm lens board so there is really no room.

I have heard vague mentions of a mythical recessed board for it but no evidence it has ever existed or how that would even work. not sure how even a copal 0 could fit in there with controls. they are certainly not available to buy anywhere.

Unfortunate that they used the same little lens boards in the 45 as their 6x9 cameras. I once had a 65mm Topcon lens in a recessed board that I used in a Horseman VH. Still have the camera, no longer have the lens or its board.

But... If you can find an extended lens board (opposite of a recessed board), you can reverse it to make a recessed board. I just tried it with my VH and it works. Of course the one I have has a No. 1 hole.
thumbnail_image0 (17) by Marco Wikstrom, on Flickr

[Axelwik]

But, doesn't look like a No. 0 shutter would fit. Too bad.

[rfesk]

recessed lens boards are not available for the 45FA. it uses an 80x80mm lens board so there is really no room.

I have heard vague mentions of a mythical recessed board for it but no evidence it has ever existed or how that would even work. not sure how even a copal 0 could fit in there with controls. they are certainly not available to buy anywhere.

As Sal mentioned, I did have a few recessed lens boards and sold them all long ago. They were made on a CNC machine by my friend. To install a lens some modifications were required on the Copal 0 shutter's controls just to install the 65mm lens.

I have another friend who has used even shorter lenses on a VH. But to focus he has to manually move the front standard on the rails in the camera itself.
No movements of course.