Tintype images washing away

[MattyShotgun]

Hey folks! I'm new here so I'm still learning this website.

Anyways, I'm posting this because I have a reoccurring mishap. It doesn't happen everytime I decide to take some tintypes, but when it does it tends to happen in every attempt within a single sitting. What's happening is that when I pour my developer, much of my image just washes away... sometimes even more of the image washes away in the fixer. It's terribly frustrating.
Im not too sure of the cause but I suspect it's due to the way I put my plate into the silver bath. I couldn't afford a silver tank so I use a developing tray. I will admit, I still have not gotten very good at consistently getting my plate in the bath smoothly. I'm still pretty new to wpc. That is the only thing I know for sure I'm doing wrong but I am a novice.

I'll add an example. Has this happened to anyone else?

[paulbarden]

That’s an unusual problem. How old is the collodion your using?

[MattyShotgun]

I've gotten this issue with two different batches of collodion (the only two I've used so far)- UVP 4 (6 or 7 months old) and UVP X (3 months old)

[paulbarden]

I've gotten this issue with two different batches of collodion (the only two I've used so far)- UVP 4 (6 or 7 months old) and UVP X (3 months old)

I think you should describe in as much detail as possible exactly what materials you are using, what technique, temperatures where you are, what you are using for plates, etc.

[MattyShotgun]

All my chemistry came from UV photographics. I use the iron copper developer. My trophy aluminum also came from UV photographics.

I used to live in my car half of the time when I first started wpc so I always had my gear with me and did not allow me to store in proper temperatures. My chemistry has been stored in temperatures pretty low. The lowest probably being just above freezing temps; maybe freezing temps but I never noticed them being frozen. I'm not sure how this effects the chemistry.
I'm on the East Coast and it was a fairly warm day the last time I took some tintypes. I only shoot in natural light but this time around my dark box was indoors so it didn't get too warm. So I've only really shot in the cold, not so much warm or hot weather.
I often question whether or not my plate is ready to be submerged in the silver bath after pouring the collodion. I have yet to test it with my thumb so see how dry the collodion is. Perhaps that has something to do with it but I am fairly confident some time between 30 seconds to a minute after pouring is a reasonable time to submerge the plate. I always do 3-4 min in silver bath...
I should mention- and I'm not the most eloquent so this is difficult for me to describe in an effective way- when I submerge my plate to sensitize, if it is not a smooth motion, I sometimes notice a pale streak or pattern towards the end of the plate that touched the silver bath first. Not always, but sometimes what the developer washes away follows that pattern. Even if it washes away, I usually wash the developer off after 15 to 20 seconds. Fix and rinse.

I can't think of anything else notable but I don't know exactly what is considered normal and what is not in this process. I've never met or worked with anyone who does wet plate. A workshop would be helpful, but nah... After typing this though, I now have an eyebrow raised at the developer and am considering trying something different.

[MattyShotgun]

Is there any chance that the silver solution could find its way underneath the film of collodion to prevent it from sticking to the trophy aluminum??

[paulbarden]

All my chemistry came from UV photographics. I use the iron copper developer. My trophy aluminum also came from UV photographics.

I used to live in my car half of the time when I first started wpc so I always had my gear with me and did not allow me to store in proper temperatures. My chemistry has been stored in temperatures pretty low. The lowest probably being just above freezing temps; maybe freezing temps but I never noticed them being frozen. I'm not sure how this effects the chemistry.
I'm on the East Coast and it was a fairly warm day the last time I took some tintypes. I only shoot in natural light but this time around my dark box was indoors so it didn't get too warm. So I've only really shot in the cold, not so much warm or hot weather.
I often question whether or not my plate is ready to be submerged in the silver bath after pouring the collodion. I have yet to test it with my thumb so see how dry the collodion is. Perhaps that has something to do with it but I am fairly confident some time between 30 seconds to a minute after pouring is a reasonable time to submerge the plate. I always do 3-4 min in silver bath...
I should mention- and I'm not the most eloquent so this is difficult for me to describe in an effective way- when I submerge my plate to sensitize, if it is not a smooth motion, I sometimes notice a pale streak or pattern towards the end of the plate that touched the silver bath first. Not always, but sometimes what the developer washes away follows that pattern. Even if it washes away, I usually wash the developer off after 15 to 20 seconds. Fix and rinse.

I can't think of anything else notable but I don't know exactly what is considered normal and what is not in this process. I've never met or worked with anyone who does wet plate. A workshop would be helpful, but nah... After typing this though, I now have an eyebrow raised at the developer and am considering trying something different.

If your copper developer is 6 months old and the bottle has been open for a while, it may be the age of the developer contributing to your issues. I have used that copper developer before and found it didn't last long after opening the bottle.
Allowing any of your chemistry to freeze isn't good for it. Worse, is letting it get very hot, especially the collodion.
Under normal conditions with temps between 60F and 75F, I find the collodion is sufficiently dry after 45-60 seconds to put in the silver bath. So I think you're likely doing that correctly. But if the collodion has become compromised....
How are you maintaining your silver bath? It requires regular maintenance to perform correctly (filtering, replenishing the silver content, etc.) Neglecting regular maintenance can quickly result in a number of problems.

Without knowing exactly how the chemistry was stored, and what your silver bath maintenance has been like, its hard to pinpoint where your problems lie. It could be several contributing factors cumulatively creating a problem.

Whose manual are you working from, by the way?

[MattyShotgun]

Perhaps the developer is the main contributor then because thinking about it now, it is 6 or 7 months old and I've noticed a change in hue and clarity from the time I've started using it. To me, that seems like a pretty clear indicator that it will not perform as well from the time it was made; I wish I'd have recognized that sooner. If I recall correctly though, I first experienced this issue while the developer was still relatively fresh... Hmm...

I have not done much maintenance to my silver bath aside from filtering it after every use with a coffee filter. Idk how effective that actually is though. Since I'm using a developing tray, Im always worried something is going to find its way in the bath that shouldn't be there. Not too long ago I purchased some silver crystals to balance the distilled water to silver ratio. I have a hydrometer too but have yet to get the rest of the necessary lab equipment. I could definitely see the lack of maintenance attributing to my issues... I was hoping it would be something a little more simple though. Because I haven't maintained it yet, it's a little daunting to me after I saw what happens to the bath if the water you add is not distilled and how much of a pain that could be.

I guess my next course of action is to address both of those concerns.

I'm not working from any specific manual. I've gathered a lot of info from lots of sources here on the Internet. This website, I found has the most useful insights of all. Aside from someone who's been doing wpc for quite some time I reached out to on social media; they've been invaluable with useful info.

[Raidahl]

I would say, that it's not really hard to make your developer on your own, before your session. Then you'd know it's fresh. I use normal iron sulfate based developer with sugar, and it's not getting old, at least it's been working month after month. Okay, every time I make new batch for client, I make it little bit too much, so that I can add that leftover to my existing developer bottle.