?increased grain when using glass negative carriers?

[MartyJoelFrank]

Is it possible that one of the effects of using a glass negative carrier for 4x5 negatives is enhanced appearance of grain compared to glassless carriers? My recently employed carrier on my beselar 45MX has glass on both sides. There is some excess dust spots on the prints and some dark lines I guess from small scratches in the glass but was surprised to find increased grain when never had this problem with my glassless carrier. Tried using glass carriers when some suggested it might improve sharpness. Is grain a side effect of this tendency?
Thanks to any response.

[Michael R]

A few possibilities here.

1. Without the glass carrier it is possible your negatives were curved etc. enough that the grain was a little fuzzy but the prints appeared reasonably sharp/in focus otherwise. Basically, if the glass carrier is causing your negatives to be in sharper focus, the grain would also be in sharper focus and therefore more apparent.

2. You are using anti-Newton ring glass with an etched texture that is showing up in the prints as additional "graininess".

Contrary to what some people say, dust shouldn't be more of a problem with a glass carrier than without. Scratches and other glass imperfections are another story. They might or might not be visible in prints depending on a number of factors.

Glass carriers can be tricky/finicky depending on the film etc.

Is it possible that one of the effects of using a glass negative carrier for 4x5 negatives is enhanced appearance of grain compared to glassless carriers? My recently employed carrier on my beselar 45MX has glass on both sides. There is some excess dust spots on the prints and some dark lines I guess from small scratches in the glass but was surprised to find increased grain when never had this problem with my glassless carrier. Tried using glass carriers when some suggested it might improve sharpness. Is grain a side effect of this tendency?
Thanks to any response.

[Tin Can]

I use 2 Calumet Glassless 8X10 for film, it must be perfect, not warped

I also use the Beseler 4X5 glassless stretcher, a beast

Both work well for me

[Michael R]

In general I agree. If you don't have any issues with negative sagging/warping from heat etc. you're better off glassless, and go to a glass carrier where required only. If you're doing registration/masking that's another story, but aside from that I have found glass can sometimes cause more problems than it solves. There are workarounds, and variables involved, but usually best to just keep things simple and only get more complicated if needed.

I use 2 Calumet Glassless 8X10 for film, it must be perfect, not warped

I also use the Beseler 4X5 glassless stretcher, a beast

Both work well for me

[Drew Wiley]

Glass has nothing to do with grain. I can't imagine trying to make any kind of critical enlargement without glass on both sides of the negative. Yeah, you gotta clean it a lot. But going glassless doesn't prevent bits of dust from circulating inside your enlarger and landing on the film during enlargement; nor do any glassless carriers maintain true flatness. If you do go glassless, you might want to keep the heat down by resorting to a cold light or LED lead. But as Michael just noted, I am one of those who does registration and masking work, and often big precise color prints; so I've used double Anti-Newton glass carriers routinely for decades now.

If you get Anti-Newton texture showing up in a print from that type of carrier glass, then it's the wrong type for the degree of incidence of light or format size. That's a somewhat involved topic I can't explain in detail at the moment. I happen to live in the proverbially foggy SF Bay area where Newton ring issues plague darkroom work; so high quality Anti Newton glass carriers are a MUST for me in every enlarger and contact frame.

[bob carnie]

A few possibilities here.

1. Without the glass carrier it is possible your negatives were curved etc. enough that the grain was a little fuzzy but the prints appeared reasonably sharp/in focus otherwise. Basically, if the glass carrier is causing your negatives to be in sharper focus, the grain would also be in sharper focus and therefore more apparent.

2. You are using anti-Newton ring glass with an etched texture that is showing up in the prints as additional "graininess".

Contrary to what some people say, dust shouldn't be more of a problem with a glass carrier than without. Scratches and other glass imperfections are another story. They might or might not be visible in prints depending on a number of factors.

Glass carriers can be tricky/finicky depending on the film etc.

What Micheal says , I. have only used glass carrier for all my printing... anti Newton glass should be on top not bottom fyiw.

[Tin Can]

The objectors are hired guns

I am lowly hobbyist, I am never paid

I don't care what anybody thinks

I like my results!

I have 10 sheets of good AN 11X14

[Michael R]

I have 10 sheets of good AN 11X14

That's good! It is becoming an increasingly rare commodity.

[Drew Wiley]

Bob - There is no optical degradation when using the CORRECT kind of AN glass on the bottom too. I've tested extensively for that, with 13 different types of glass in fact, few of which are still available.

[bob carnie]

Bob - There is no optical degradation when using the CORRECT kind of AN glass on the bottom too. I've tested extensively for that, with 13 different types of glass in fact, few of which are still available.

Interesting, I. have always used glass from Focal Press , top and bottom, never tried AN on bottom