Are there planar-type lenses longer than 135mm for large format?

[Bernice Loui]

"It was a Zeiss physicist, Paul Rudolph (b. 14 November 1858 - d. 8 March 1935), who led the effort to develop the world’s first anastigmat (or anastigmatic) lens. Every photo lens made prior to this would image in a way that photographs taken with them, under close inspection, would show one or more defects (termed aberrations in optics). The “anastigmat” was the first among a series of lenses designed for film photography that corrected astigmatism, coma, and spherical aberration. The correction of chromatism, false color that appears as a halo of violet or crimson where contrasting colors meet caused as wavelengths of light passing through glass are shifted, was less of a concern with shorter focal length lenses but improvements in glass technology to solve this in longer lenses would come later. The first of these anastigmat lenses was the Protar of 1890. This would be followed in 1895 with the Planar, the Unar of 1899, the Tessar of 1902 so sharp that it was marketed as the “Eagle’s Eye”, the Plasmat of 1918."
http://www.company7.com/zeiss/history.html

~Back then the Tessar (as did Ludwig Bertle's Sonnar) had an advantage over the Planar (double Gauss) due to fewer number of air to glass surfaces to lower image contrast and better overall light transmission. It was not until proper lens coatings were developed before the Planar ala double Gauss lens design/formula became good and viable. Today, planar_double Gauss lens design/formula IS one of the most commonly produced photographic lenses due to modern coatings, glass types, modern optics production and 'puter aided design.

APO Microscope objectives:

"About 1886 Carl Zeiss started to produce apochromatic objectives, using a naturally occurring mineral called fluorspar, which having very low dispersive powers was used in combination with other types of glass."
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/...jachromat.html


What has changed since then?
Bernice

[Mark Sawyer]

Current sought after double Gauss (Planar formula) 4x5 sheet film lenses are
~Kodak Aero Ektars:
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/01539/01539.pdf

Thank you, Bernice! I noticed the Aero Ektars listed don't include the two most common, the 178mm f/2.5, and the 305mm f/2.5. Do you (or does anyone else) know what their designs are?

[Vaidotas]

“Today, planar_double Gauss lens design/formula IS one of the most commonly produced photographic lenses due to modern coatings, glass types, modern optics production and 'puter aided design.”

Small remark: double gauss is mainstream in 135 / FF and that pandemic started Leitz.
And - Zeiss abandoned production of other outstanding lens when Tessar became dominant and most commercial succesful product. Succesfull product and outstanding lens sometimes are in different plates.
To me Zeiss is example of perfect management.

[mhayashi]

The zeiss jena planar Ia 205mm, 250mm, 300mm and so on.
The focal length 205mm and 250mm Ia lenses were made more than others.
So you would see samples for sale online.

https://archive.org/details/photogra...p?view=theater

Written in Japanese by a user, you can use translate function in your browser.
https://spiral-m42.blogspot.com/2015...anar-10cm.html

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. Since no one has mentioned them so far, TTH made a variety of f/2 6/4 double Gauss types. Early trade names were OPIC and Series 0. According to the VM, a few 8"/2 lenses were made. I have a 4"/2 Anastigmat ex-Vinten F.95, also used on Williamson F.134 and F.139. Small heavy monster. I don't use it anymore, plasmat type normal lenses for 2x3 are smaller, lighter, in shutter and shoot at least as well at the apertures I normally use. As for bokum, well, shots of busy subjects taken at apertures larger than f/8 with my TTH marvel give me a headache.

Dallmeyer's answer to the OPIC was the Super Six, another 6/4 Double Gauss type. Longer focal lengths included 6"/1.9 (I had one, great heavy monster) and 8"/2.0, later 150 mm/1.9 and 200 mm/2.0. These beasts turn up occasionally, command astronomical prices.

And then there were the French. I've had an S.F.O.M. badged 200/2.0 lens, supposedly made by Kinoptik, from an Omera aerial camera. Greater heavier monster. Boyer made a 200/1.9 Saphir.

[aphcl84]

Lomo made a 180mm 2.8 6/4 planar type projection lens, I'm not sure what format it was meant for, but it covers something like 210mm. It's absolutely enormous and with the way it's manufactured cannot be adapted into a shutter without making entirely new cells for it, but I plan to do exactly that with the two that I own. I expect it will make for a fantastic portrait lens.

[Mark Sawyer]

Thank you, Bernice! I noticed the Aero Ektars listed don't include the two most common, the 178mm f/2.5, and the 305mm f/2.5. Do you (or does anyone else) know what their designs are?

I answered my own question with a bit of internet research this morning. Yes, the 178mm and 305mm f/2.5 lenses are indeed Planar variations of the Double-Gauss design:

http://www.johndesq.nl/graflex/aeromemorandum.htm

[Bernice Loui]

180mm/f2.8 = about.. 64.2mm OD front element, not huge by any means.. The famed 180mm f2.8 Zeiss Sonnar typically has a 86mm filter size..

Big would be something like this Schneider 480mm f4.5 Xenar with a 122mm front filter diameter, works with a Sinar or Packard or similar large shutter:


As for adapting the lens cells, why bother, simply mount this lens on a Sinar lens board then quick install on a Sinar camera with Sinar shutter, done.

Curious, why would this LOMO 180mm f2.8 planar (double Gauss) type projection lens make a "fantastic portrait lens?"

Not the first time projector lenses have been used this way,
Bernice

Lomo made a 180mm 2.8 6/4 planar type projection lens, I'm not sure what format it was meant for, but it covers something like 210mm. It's absolutely enormous and with the way it's manufactured cannot be adapted into a shutter without making entirely new cells for it, but I plan to do exactly that with the two that I own. I expect it will make for a fantastic portrait lens.

[aphcl84]

180mm/f2.8 = about.. 64.2mm OD front element, not huge by any means.. The famed 180mm f2.8 Zeiss Sonnar typically has a 86mm filter size..

Big would be something like this Schneider 480mm f4.5 Xenar with a 122mm front filter diameter, works with a Sinar or Packard or similar large shutter:


As for adapting the lens cells, why bother, simply mount this lens on a Sinar lens board then quick install on a Sinar camera with Sinar shutter, done.

Curious, why would this LOMO 180mm f2.8 planar (double Gauss) type projection lens make a "fantastic portrait lens?"

Not the first time projector lenses have been used this way,
Bernice

The front element on this lens is 92mm, so rather enormous for a 180mm, my Sonnar 180mm is both smaller and lighter, the rear element is 80mm with a 104mm cell diameter so mounting in front of a Sinar shutter would mechanically restrict the image circle and the lens lacks a aperture adjustment. I don't feel that a Sinar shutter would give me the performance that I want and I don't own a Sinar camera anyway. For me it's easier to machine a couple lens cells and mount it in a normal shutter. For portraiture I would be using it the same way that 178mm Aero-Ektars have been used of late, but with this lens the bokeh is far smoother.

[Dan Fromm]

The front element on this lens is 92mm, so rather enormous for a 180mm, my Sonnar 180mm is both smaller and lighter, the rear element is 80mm with a 104mm cell diameter so mounting in front of a Sinar shutter would mechanically restrict the image circle and the lens lacks a aperture adjustment. I don't feel that a Sinar shutter would give me the performance that I want and I don't own a Sinar camera anyway. For me it's easier to machine a couple lens cells and mount it in a normal shutter. For portraiture I would be using it the same way that 178mm Aero-Ektars have been used of late, but with this lens the bokeh is far smoother.

Hmm. Might work with a Compound #5 or Ilex #5. Which shutter do you intend to use?