Unidentified Problem - Need Help!

[Robert Kalman]

I vote pinhole (or some other lens-like exposure). The reasons I discount the reflector theory are:

1) The image on the subjects' legs does not follow the contours of the legs;

2) The image from negative-to-negative is always in the same place, something that would not happen with a hand-held reflector;

3) If the reflector was the source of the imaging then the image on the subjects' legs would be upside-down.

4) The ghost only shows up on dark clothing and is not present in image #2 where the clothing is white. If this were a projected image it would show up on white clothing and not on dark clothing. The reason it doesn't show up in the second image is the light colored clothing has overpowered the ghost image.

The problem can't be in the film holders as the problem is identical in all the examples.

That leaves a pinhole in the camera. Did anything in the vicinity resemble the ghost images' tree-line and sky? There was a case similar to this that was the result of a pinhole in the lens mount, but in that case it caused a ghost of the subject. In this case the pinhole would have to be in the bellows. Pinhole images are 'in focus' independent of pinhole-to-film distance.

There are other possible reasons - somehow the film was exposed to a projected image in processing. Not sure how that would happen - does the ghost image resemble the environs of the darkroom (I admit that is quite a stretch)?

This is persuasive, Nicholas, particularly because I checked the bellows and found a few pinholes. Needless to say, I'm all set to repair them. Thanks!!

[Bernice Loui]

Suggest replacing the bellows with pin holes. Patch-up is temp band-aid at best. Bellows patches can fail when least expected causing more ruined images, wasted resources, time and LOTs more.. Patching up leaky bellows is very much "penny wise, pound foolish"... false economy in the bigger picture.


Bernice

This is persuasive, Nicholas, particularly because I checked the bellows and found a few pinholes. Needless to say, I'm all set to repair them. Thanks!!

[Robert Kalman]

Suggest replacing the bellows with pin holes. Patch-up is temp band-aid at best. Bellows patches can fail when least expected causing more ruined images, wasted resources, time and LOTs more.. Patching up leaky bellows is very much "penny wise, pound foolish"... false economy in the bigger picture.


Bernice

Thanks for this. I agree with you in principle, but I have no idea where I can replace an 8x10 Ebony bellows since the company no longer exists. Any suggestions?

[mike rosenlof]

I partially, but not 100% agree with Bernice. A small number of holes can be patched, but in a perfect world, replacement is the way to go.

Richard Ritter or Keith Canham might be able to help you out with replacement bellows. Maybe, but not for sure. Canham does a fair bit of custom work for various ULF formats and so on, so I would be surprised if he wouldn't handle this.

[chaspics]

The pinhole explanation does seem plausible, but the exposure between open shade and direct sunlight could explain how you could have reasonable exposure from both. The pinholes would need to be a pretty large diameter. The extra image is not as in focus as I would expect from a well made pinhole. If you can fit the thickest part of a toothpick in the hole, it could be large enough to create the exposure, and would explain the very soft focus.
As for repairing the pinholes (though I agree replacing the bellows is the best course of action), I have some that have lasted decades. I used the black liquid rubber used for dipping tool handles in. Today I'd try one of the new flexible seal products available. Flexseal and Rustoleum are two I think of. Applying inside or out won't make much deference, just make sure that the product is COMPLETELY DRY before compressing the bellows. I'd give it a couple days. If it is at all tacky, it will stick to itself and could cause a bigger problem.
Best of luck. No one wants to admit a re-shoot is needed.
Chas

[Bernice Loui]

Custom Bellows in the UK:
http://www.custombellows.co.uk

e-Tone in China. Had them make a Linhof TK23s bellows some time ago, it has been absolutely problem free and does what a good bellows should.
https://www.etonephoto.com/collectio...ra-accessories

Long as the bellows frames are good, replacing the bellows is not too difficult and the proper course of action.

Circa 90's ruined a set of images due to trying to patch a 5x7 Sinar Norma bellow past it's service life. The patch-up failed, ruined 6 sheets of Agfachrome RS100.. never again at ANY cost. Sinar was easy as there were plenty of complete replacement bellows available back then.

Might cost a few hundred U$D to get a proper replacement bellows for your 8x10 Ebony.. consider the cost of wasted film/processing and all related. Top of all that images ruined by light leaky bellows. Patch might work, unitl that patch fails when least expected and least wanted.. followed by utter and total frustration..


Bernice

Thanks for this. I agree with you in principle, but I have no idea where I can replace an 8x10 Ebony bellows since the company no longer exists. Any suggestions?

[Willie]

If you do go the patch route it would pay to learn "The Morley Baer Wrap" for the camera. Baer was using an older 8x10 with a lot of light leaks in the bellows. He would focus, compose and before exposing the film wrap the camera with his dark cloth. Apparently this worked for him for a few years.

Custom Bellows in the UK is top notch. Good quality and easy to work with.

[Joshua Dunn]

Robert,

If you want to eliminate pinholes as a possibility, setup you camera in direct sun. Focus on something close (you want a fair amount of bellows extension) but flat and a darker color, like a brick wall. Use your smallest aperture to increase the exposure time. Make one exposure, then cover the bellows entirely with something. If your dark cloth is large enough use it. Just make sure the bellows don't sag enough that it obscures the lens. Make a second exposure. Process both and see if there are any differences in the negatives.

-Joshua

[esearing]

I'll throw this out there - hole in the reflector projecting a sharp image onto the person in the same way that trees create bright circles during an eclipse, but that would likely be upside down. Or some other reflective object doing it like the glass face of a watch or cellphone or even mirrored sunglasses.

If a pinhole, You can put a flashlight inside your bellows in a darkroom and check for pinholes.

[koraks]

I'll throw this out there - hole in the reflector projecting a sharp image onto the person in the same way that trees create bright circles during an eclipse, but that would likely be upside down.

Not only that, there's no way a pinhole projection would ever come even close to matching the scene's brightness.