Issue with Jobo Process operation - Lift arm

[bob carnie]

Hi All

I am processing a large volumne of 8x10 film using PMK (1000ml) each tank in an 8 x10 expert drum. The lift arm has come off on numerous occasions and is not
strong enough to lift by itself, as you can see by the jpeg here the drum goes over 1/2 the lift arm and getting ones arm below to help assist the lift though working is
not smooth.

Does anyone here have a lift arm lifting solution to this problem, Catalos did at one time make a lift arm assist and today do not and do not have any used ones.

I posted this on FB and got a lot of responses, Most say they do this all the time with no issue, either they are using minimum amount of liquid and the container is light, Maybe they have an lift arm from Jobo that is longer than mine , or they are part snake man/woman and have the thinnest arms in the world. I have the Jobo CPP3 and I have talked with Omer at Catlabs about this problem.

I have processed since 1993 on Jobos , I owned two Alt 2300 and we have processed many thousands of runs of PMK. Now I own this CPP3 which I love but this arm lift situation is very flimsy.
any suggestions would be helpful. ( other than you do it all the time with your hands and the arm) thanks in advance

[Alan9940]

I have a CPP-2, lift, and use the 8x10 Expert Drum all the time with, occasionally, 1,500ml of solution in the tank. What I do is: hold the lift handle with my left hand, stick a couple of fingers on my right hand under the angle of the plastic piece where the rails attach at the front, then lift with both hands simultaneously. I lower the drum back down the same way. After 25 years of processing with both the 4x5 and 8x10 Expert Drums I've never bent the lift handle. Lifting a full drum with just the handle may work a time or two, but, eventually, it will fail. Hope I explained my "lift procedure" clearly enough to understand.

[bob carnie]

I have a CPP-2, lift, and use the 8x10 Expert Drum all the time with, occasionally, 1,500ml of solution in the tank. What I do is: hold the lift handle with my left hand, stick a couple of fingers on my right hand under the angle of the plastic piece where the rails attach at the front, then lift with both hands simultaneously. I lower the drum back down the same way. After 25 years of processing with both the 4x5 and 8x10 Expert Drums I've never bent the lift handle. Lifting a full drum with just the handle may work a time or two, but, eventually, it will fail. Hope I explained my "lift procedure" clearly enough to understand.

Thanks Alan I will give this a try we are trying to lift from the back and its really awkward, I have film set up right now and will give a go today, I cannot believe how flimsy the design of the lift arm is.

[Oren Grad]

One of the Jobo info sheets for the Expert drums warns about this:

Caution: The Expert Series of Drums will fit on JOBO CPA-2 and CPP-2 manual processors. Care must be taken! A loaded Expert Drum can be very heavy and strain both the rotation motor and lift of manual processors. Use both hands to help the lift when raising it...

Many people may never have seen this particular sheet, though.

I vaguely recall some discussion long ago about fabricating a more robust, all-metal replacement for the arm, but nothing came of it. Beyond cost, IIRC there was also a concern that doing so would just reveal some other point of vulnerability in the mechanism.

I didn't notice the fine print initially, learned my lesson the hard way by breaking a lift arm. Since then I've carried most of the load by using my other hand to lift the rail / roller bracket assembly from underneath. Yes, my hand gets wet.

[bob carnie]

One of the Jobo info sheets for the Expert drums warns about this:

Caution: The Expert Series of Drums will fit on JOBO CPA-2 and CPP-2 manual processors. Care must be taken! A loaded Expert Drum can be very heavy and strain both the rotation motor and lift of manual processors. Use both hands to help the lift when raising it...

Many people may never have seen this particular sheet, though.

I vaguely recall some discussion long ago about fabricating a more robust, all-metal replacement for the arm, but nothing came of it. Beyond cost, IIRC there was also a concern that doing so would just reveal some other point of vulnerability in the mechanism.

I didn't notice the fine print initially, learned my lesson the hard way by breaking a lift arm. Since then I've carried most of the load by using my other hand to lift the rail / roller bracket assembly from underneath. Yes, my hand gets wet.

Yes it does strain both motor and the lift arm , mine has came of a bunch of times and is quite shocking when it happens, I am going to give Alans method a try today and report back, I will also see if I can
find a Macgiver type in Toronto to come up with a solution, for long term.

[Bruce Watson]

One of the Jobo info sheets for the Expert drums warns about this:

Caution: The Expert Series of Drums will fit on JOBO CPA-2 and CPP-2 manual processors. Care must be taken! A loaded Expert Drum can be very heavy and strain both the rotation motor and lift of manual processors. Use both hands to help the lift when raising it...

Yup. I never saw that instruction either, but it never occurred to me to use the lift any other way. Part of the problem of being a mechanical engineer I suppose. I put a 3010 drum on the processor (unloaded), lifted it with the lift arm once as a test when the drum was brand new, and it was immediately obvious to my engineering brain that this wasn't a viable way to empty the drum. So forever more I pretty much completely ignored the lift arm and lifted the drum by (right) hand under the lift (under the bottom edge of drum). Yes, you have to put your hand in the tempered water to do this. But it's much easier to control it this way, and no danger of breaking the lift arm if you don't use it. Just sayin'.

But I did eventually find that instruction years later. It was nice to be validated, but that didn't change the stellar negative development I was getting already. Perfectly smooth skies, thy name is Jobo.

[Oren Grad]

I wonder whether some sort of handle could be designed that would attach to the rail / roller bracket assembly without interfering with drum mounting or rotation.

[bob carnie]

I wonder whether some sort of handle could be designed that would attach to the rail / roller bracket assembly without interfering with drum mounting or rotation.

I am going to get someone to look at my unit , I just did a run and like Alan said it does help but it still made a cracking sound getting my hands under the lift, I think its doable and will post a design if I can make it work.

[Alan9940]

I am going to get someone to look at my unit , I just did a run and like Alan said it does help but it still made a cracking sound getting my hands under the lift, I think its doable and will post a design if I can make it work.

By "cracking sound", are you referring to the gear sound if the teeth don't align properly when lifting up/down the drum? I get this occasionally when doing the lift up and have never worried about it. When returning the drum to its operating position (that is, the down "lift") I lower the drum to a position just before it's to engage, wait until the motor is reversing back, then lower completely. Sometimes I miss it a bit, but most times there is no sound.

Some kind of extension to the rail unit would certainly be helpful, but the unit I remember being available years ago looked pretty flimsy to me. Not much use if the extension can't handle the weight of a full drum. Also, with an extension I'm thinking the lift would have to be exactly even and simultaneous with both hands, otherwise you might bend the rails; that wouldn't be good! Honestly, I've never understood why the lift mechanism is so dinky on an otherwise pretty well-built processor.

[Oren Grad]

By "cracking sound", are you referring to the gear sound if the teeth don't align properly when lifting up/down the drum? I get this occasionally when doing the lift up and have never worried about it. When returning the drum to its operating position (that is, the down "lift") I lower the drum to a position just before it's to engage, wait until the motor is reversing back, then lower completely. Sometimes I miss it a bit, but most times there is no sound.

Same here.

Some kind of extension to the rail unit would certainly be helpful, but the unit I remember being available years ago looked pretty flimsy to me. Not much use if the extension can't handle the weight of a full drum. Also, with an extension I'm thinking the lift would have to be exactly even and simultaneous with both hands, otherwise you might bend the rails; that wouldn't be good! Honestly, I've never understood why the lift mechanism is so dinky on an otherwise pretty well-built processor.

Not sure it would need to be exactly even, just close enough not to put a major strain on any of the components. I'm pretty sure I'm not perfectly aligned when I'm lifting the rails-plus-drum with my hand.